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Computer backup issues?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by cyberpriusII, Jun 11, 2022.

  1. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    First, I really, really appreciate "most" of you here....Yeah, Bisco, you are included. You may not know it, but this site sort of helped me recover from "issues." Even when I don't post -- it is a bit of normalcy. And those of you whom have been here a bit may know what I refer to....

    Anyway, life moves on. I have a 2012 HP computer 8 gig running Windows 10. MS says it cannot support Windows 11. Fine, dandy. I do not care.

    I do care about backing up said computer. I have posted on some computer boards, I have googled the heck out of how to backup -- and why does every site make it so complicated?

    All I want to do is to backup said computer. On the computer boards it gets into "pis" matches and the wisdom on Toms and the rest seem to fly right over my head. On the other hand, if you need someone that knows the in and outs of deer, bear, etc. I am your woman.

    So, for a techno sort of idiot. Step by step (and I have posted this ? on several computer boards), how do I backup this thing. I have three external drives --- can I use one of those --- Is it best to just pay for one of the cloud services -- which I am willing to do if I am convinced that they are secure and work. Well, I could go on, but I think you all know what I am seeking.
    Kris
     
  2. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    Macrum Reflect is a good backup program. They have a free version for individual, non-business users. I have used it and it has worked well for me.

    https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree
     
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  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Sometimes it's good to start with: what are your objectives for said backup?

    Do you want a total, "I could restore this onto a new bare metal computer and have everything as it was" backup, including all the stuff that came with the computer? Do you want a backup of just the stuff you've produced through your own creative efforts? Something in between? What about your emails?

    Where do you want it to be? If it's to be used in case disaster strikes your computer, do you have a place to keep it that wouldn't be subject to the same disaster? A safe deposit box? How near to or far from you?

    Cloud solutions are attractive on the far-away-from-my-disaster metric. They're generally supposed to be encrypted, so even though other people have your stuff, they shouldn't be able to be in your stuff. How do you feel about that?

    How frequently do you envision updating your backups?

    A few years ago, my niece had an older laptop she'd been using in school. It had an old spinning hard drive. To give her an easy speed upgrade/breath of new life, we bought her a solid-state drive, much faster and twice as big or so.

    To avoid figuring out whatever Windows might have provided for copying drives, we just took the drive out of her laptop, and hooked it and the new SSD to my laptop with eSATA cables, and told my laptop "just copy all the bits from this thing to that thing". Then we put the SSD into her laptop and it booted right up just as it always did, only lots faster. She could hang on to the old spinning drive as a "backup" of that.

    (When the system boots up the first time after a procedure like that, it looks like it still only has the original amount of space ... because the new, larger, drive just has a bit-for-bit copy of what was on the old smaller one. But there is a utility in Windows, IIRC,that can then embiggen an existing partition so it has all the available space of the new drive.)
     
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  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Windows is a mess... Switching to Linux when Microsoft tried to force install my win10 on my computer was best thing I've done in computer land...

    Another approach is to grab all your email data, personal files and save them both on a external hard drive and online with Google Drive or something similar and then run a computer that you don't have to back up because you store all your data elsewhere. It takes forever to backup all of Windows' clutter.

    Also if you stick with Windows you need to use CCleaner to clean out your computer, also JV16.org and How to speed up Windows 10 | IT PRO

    Windows loads their operating system with tons of crap you'll never use but it's still running in the background slowing everything down and you need to clean all that stuff out.
     
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Is 8gig the size of HD (or SSD) or RAM? If it is the size of HD, then you can copy the entire drive into an SD card (or any external drive or USB card). You can make a total system backup but for a 10-year-old PC, unless the machine is mission-critical hardware that must be running without change in the system, I would just make multiple copies of data files and keep it safe. Yeah, you can automate the backup process using a windows native app or a third-party app, but you can also simply make manual copies of important files by copying the entire 8gb. It will take maybe a few minutes each time.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Microsoft has the command line command "robocopy" built in. it can be run in a batch file. It can copy files from source to destination, and if files are deleted at source also delete them at destination. Essentially mirroring.

    This is the content of my current batch file, for keeping a D: drive copy of what's on C:

    @echo off
    robocopy c:\a d:\a /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\download d:\download /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\conv d:\conv /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\util d:\util /mir /xo
    robocopy "C:\users\Mendel Leisk\Documents" "d:\users\Mendel Leisk\Documents" /mir /xo
    robocopy "C:\users\Mendel Leisk\Downloads" "d:\users\Mendel Leisk\Downloads" /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\backups d:\backups /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\raws d:\raws /mir /xo
    robocopy c:\music d:\music/mir /xo

    D: is an internal drive, identical to C:, very quick.

    Command line query:

    c:\>robocopy/?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROBOCOPY :: Robust File Copy for Windows
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Started : Sunday, June 12, 2022 8:34:02 AM
    Usage :: ROBOCOPY source destination [file [file]...] [options]

    source :: Source Directory (drive:\path or \\server\share\path).
    destination :: Destination Dir (drive:\path or \\server\share\path).
    file :: File(s) to copy (names/wildcards: default is "*.*").

    ::
    :: Copy options :
    ::
    /S :: copy Subdirectories, but not empty ones.
    /E :: copy subdirectories, including Empty ones.
    /LEV:n :: only copy the top n LEVels of the source directory tree.

    /Z :: copy files in restartable mode.
    /B :: copy files in Backup mode.
    /ZB :: use restartable mode; if access denied use Backup mode.
    /J :: copy using unbuffered I/O (recommended for large files).
    /EFSRAW :: copy all encrypted files in EFS RAW mode.

    /COPY:copyflag :: what to COPY for files (default is /COPY:DAT).
    (copyflags : D=Data, A=Attributes, T=Timestamps, X=Skip alt data streams).
    (S=Security=NTFS ACLs, O=Owner info, U=aUditing info).


    /SEC :: copy files with SECurity (equivalent to /COPY:DATS).
    /COPYALL :: COPY ALL file info (equivalent to /COPY:DATSOU).
    /NOCOPY :: COPY NO file info (useful with /PURGE).
    /SECFIX :: FIX file SECurity on all files, even skipped files.
    /TIMFIX :: FIX file TIMes on all files, even skipped files.

    /PURGE :: delete dest files/dirs that no longer exist in source.
    /MIR :: MIRror a directory tree (equivalent to /E plus /PURGE).

    /MOV :: MOVe files (delete from source after copying).
    /MOVE :: MOVE files AND dirs (delete from source after copying).

    /A+:[RASHCNET] :: add the given Attributes to copied files.
    /A-:[RASHCNET] :: remove the given Attributes from copied files.

    /CREATE :: CREATE directory tree and zero-length files only.
    /FAT :: create destination files using 8.3 FAT file names only.
    /256 :: turn off very long path (> 256 characters) support.

    /MON:n :: MONitor source; run again when more than n changes seen.
    /MOT:m :: MOnitor source; run again in m minutes Time, if changed.

    /RH:hhmm-hhmm :: Run Hours - times when new copies may be started.
    /PF :: check run hours on a Per File (not per pass) basis.

    /IPG:n :: Inter-Packet Gap (ms), to free bandwidth on slow lines.

    /SJ :: copy Junctions as junctions instead of as the junction targets.
    /SL :: copy Symbolic Links as links instead of as the link targets.

    /MT[:n] :: Do multi-threaded copies with n threads (default 8).
    n must be at least 1 and not greater than 128.
    This option is incompatible with the /IPG and /EFSRAW options.
    Redirect output using /LOG option for better performance.

    /DCOPY:copyflag :: what to COPY for directories (default is /DCOPY:DA).
    (copyflags : D=Data, A=Attributes, T=Timestamps, E=EAs, X=Skip alt data streams).

    /NODCOPY :: COPY NO directory info (by default /DCOPY:DA is done).

    /NOOFFLOAD :: copy files without using the Windows Copy Offload mechanism.

    /COMPRESS :: Request network compression during file transfer, if applicable.

    ::
    :: File Selection Options :
    ::
    /A :: copy only files with the Archive attribute set.
    /M :: copy only files with the Archive attribute and reset it.
    /IA:[RASHCNETO] :: Include only files with any of the given Attributes set.
    /XA:[RASHCNETO] :: eXclude files with any of the given Attributes set.

    /XF file [file]... :: eXclude Files matching given names/paths/wildcards.
    /XD dirs [dirs]... :: eXclude Directories matching given names/paths.

    /XC :: eXclude Changed files.
    /XN :: eXclude Newer files.
    /XO :: eXclude Older files.
    /XX :: eXclude eXtra files and directories.
    /XL :: eXclude Lonely files and directories.
    /IS :: Include Same files.
    /IT :: Include Tweaked files.

    /MAX:n :: MAXimum file size - exclude files bigger than n bytes.
    /MIN:n :: MINimum file size - exclude files smaller than n bytes.

    /MAXAGE:n :: MAXimum file AGE - exclude files older than n days/date.
    /MINAGE:n :: MINimum file AGE - exclude files newer than n days/date.
    /MAXLAD:n :: MAXimum Last Access Date - exclude files unused since n.
    /MINLAD:n :: MINimum Last Access Date - exclude files used since n.
    (If n < 1900 then n = n days, else n = YYYYMMDD date).

    /FFT :: assume FAT File Times (2-second granularity).
    /DST :: compensate for one-hour DST time differences.

    /XJ :: eXclude symbolic links (for both files and directories) and Junction points.
    /XJD :: eXclude symbolic links for Directories and Junction points.
    /XJF :: eXclude symbolic links for Files.

    /IM :: Include Modified files (differing change times).
    ::
    :: Retry Options :
    ::
    /R:n :: number of Retries on failed copies: default 1 million.
    /W:n :: Wait time between retries: default is 30 seconds.

    /REG :: Save /R:n and /W:n in the Registry as default settings.

    /TBD :: Wait for sharenames To Be Defined (retry error 67).

    /LFSM :: Operate in low free space mode, enabling copy pause and resume (see Remarks).

    /LFSM:n[KMG] :: /LFSM, specifying the floor size in n [K:kilo,M:mega,G:giga] bytes.

    ::
    :: Logging Options :
    ::
    /L :: List only - don't copy, timestamp or delete any files.
    /X :: report all eXtra files, not just those selected.
    /V :: produce Verbose output, showing skipped files.
    /TS :: include source file Time Stamps in the output.
    /FP :: include Full Pathname of files in the output.
    /BYTES :: Print sizes as bytes.

    /NS :: No Size - don't log file sizes.
    /NC :: No Class - don't log file classes.
    /NFL :: No File List - don't log file names.
    /NDL :: No Directory List - don't log directory names.

    /NP :: No Progress - don't display percentage copied.
    /ETA :: show Estimated Time of Arrival of copied files.

    /LOG:file :: output status to LOG file (overwrite existing log).
    /LOG+:file :: output status to LOG file (append to existing log).

    /UNILOG:file :: output status to LOG file as UNICODE (overwrite existing log).
    /UNILOG+:file :: output status to LOG file as UNICODE (append to existing log).

    /TEE :: output to console window, as well as the log file.

    /NJH :: No Job Header.
    /NJS :: No Job Summary.

    /UNICODE :: output status as UNICODE.

    ::
    :: Job Options :
    ::
    /JOB:jobname :: take parameters from the named JOB file.
    /SAVE:jobname :: SAVE parameters to the named job file
    /QUIT :: QUIT after processing command line (to view parameters).
    /NOSD :: NO Source Directory is specified.
    /NODD :: NO Destination Directory is specified.
    /IF :: Include the following Files.

    ::
    :: Remarks :
    ::
    Using /PURGE or /MIR on the root directory of the volume formerly caused
    robocopy to apply the requested operation on files inside the System
    Volume Information directory as well. This is no longer the case; if
    either is specified, robocopy will skip any files or directories with that
    name in the top-level source and destination directories of the copy session.

    The modified files classification applies only when both source
    and destination filesystems support change timestamps (e.g., NTFS)
    and the source and destination files have different change times but are
    otherwise the same. These files are not copied by default; specify /IM
    to include them.

    The /DCOPY:E flag requests that extended attribute copying should be
    attempted for directories. Note that currently robocopy will continue
    if a directory's EAs could not be copied. This flag is also not included
    in /COPYALL.

    Using /LFSM requests robocopy to operate in 'low free space mode'.
    In that mode, robocopy will pause whenever a file copy would cause the
    destination volume's free space to go below a 'floor' value, which
    can be explicitly specified by the LFSM:n[KMG] form of the flag.
    If /LFSM is specified with no explicit floor value, the floor is set to
    ten percent of the destination volume's size.
    Low free space mode is incompatible with /MT, /EFSRAW, /B, and /ZB.
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    This is exactly what first popped into my head. I used Macrum Reflect for years at the radio station I served as engineer and was forced to live with Windows. Very simple to use.

    It will make a perfect clone of your present hard drive. BUT, if you put that clone in the new computer to use as c: drive, it won't have all the drivers you'll need and it can be hugely time consuming and frustrating to find them, especially if the network adapter is one of the missing drivers. The nice thing, though, is that you can access individual files on the clone.

    So, you make the clone of the old computer and then just leave the new computer's drive alone, get it all set up with your user account, and then copy the files you want to keep from the clone to the new computer. It's nowhere's near as simple and elegant as Mac or Linux, but what do you want from the people who gave us Windows ME, Vista, and 8? And usually charged us for the ordeals? :LOL:
     
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  8. PaulDM

    PaulDM Active Member

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    There is a built in program and it’s free. Buy yourself an external drive and connect it to your pc. Click on the “cog” in the start menu to take you to the new settings panel. Type Backup in the search bar. Select your external drive as your target. Then go through the drop down to select what to backup.
     
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    It's terribly clunky on Windows compared to the simplicity of MacOS's Time Machine, but I see that M$ does have a built in backup system. Backup and Restore in Windows
     
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  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Pretty much asked and answered.
    I would add that I would do multiple copies of important files using at least two technologies, in at least two locations.
    (Cloud and SSD, for example)
    As stated above, windows is pretty complicated if you're wanting a complete backup for system restoration, unless you happen to have a clone of your 2012 HP computer 8 gig running Windows 10 in a closet.
    I would start out with https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree but I would also get some inexpensive storage media for those priceless photos of the pooches, aunt B's coconut-cream pie recipe, etc...
     
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  11. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Having a problem with an HP system dropping network connections. W11, updated to latest. Pointed to HP Assistant which only showed updates for drivers appropriate for W10. Being a original NT alfa tester and having been the one charged with releasing a OS product, I made it clear that this was unacceptable. HP responded with a USB stick which would load their latest build with their latest drivers and latest HP Assistant at the sacrifice of all data, apps, customization, password storage, cookies, etc. Fortunately, all the data is on a separate drive (one that spins) so easy to back up to a USB stick. I haven't done it as it seems that the root cause was either a BIOS problem (updated) or something external.
     
  12. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    HP assistant and other HP software on your machine is what we refer to in the industry as "crapware" otherwise known as worthless software that doesn't do what it's supposed to and slows down your machine in the process. FIrst thing I always did as a Windows user back in the day was spend 5 to 6 hours uninstalling software and turning off services. There's hundreds of them running in the background and many of them slow your computer down. I used to use: Ccleaner, JV16 power Tools, Wise uninstaller, Wise Disk cleaner, Wise registry cleaner and also online tutorials that list all the services you can turn off in Windows. When I was done the computer would run 10 times faster and all the problems like bad internet connections were gone.

    But then I switched to linux, specifically Ubuntu and when you turn the computer on it takes less than 60 seconds to boot up and works faster than any Windows machine. It's also built by computer programmers that don't have huge NSA contracts that unlike Microsoft don't built their entire operating system around the surveillance needs of the government and their oligarchs. Edward Snowden released more than enough confidential information to indicate that Microsoft is NOT designed for the user, but for the people who are willing to pay huge amounts of money to have full access to unlawfully watch what the user is doing and in some cases manipulate their behavior.
     
  13. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Hey, all thanks for all the help!!!

    I think, just maybe, it has nudged me in the proper stream. I HOPE to digest this again this weekend and maybe have a backed-up computer by Monday.

    To answer the Salamander's question:
    AMD A10-5700 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 3.40 GHz
    Installed RAM: 8.00 GB (7.43 GB usable)

    Mendel, Thanks for the hard work.....but I have to admit, my eyes glazed over....sorry.....:cry::cry::cry:

    Anyway. I like the idea of just copying the important stuff to an external hard drive, which really is not that much....

    And, using a freebie program to just do a "complete" backup.

    kris
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    OK, so 8GB is RAM not the size of HD (or SSD) that you want to back up. Do you have any idea how big of HD (or SSD) you have in your box and how filled up it is? Most machines nowadays start from 500 GB and up, unless you are using a Chromebook and storing all the data files in the cloud as I do with my Chromebook. I keep all my data files both in the cloud as well as on my connected NAS. Never bother with system back-up since they can be restored easily without backing up.

    Depending on the size of critical files you want to back up you can decide what media you will need. External HD, USB thumb drive, into the cloud, etc. Saving more than a GB of data on the cloud is going to cost subscription fees.
     
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  15. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Is this what you are asking about:

    upload_2022-6-17_14-4-56.png
     
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  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yep. So, you have a 2TB HD in your box, but currently, you are using only 171GB of that space with your files. Some of the files are swap files and temporary files that don't need to be backed up. So, in essence, if that's all the files you have on your computer, all you need is a 256GB USB drive or SD card. It will not cost a lot of money for the media. You can make multiple copies in both a USB drive and SD card and still be less than $60 total. It is ~$30 for 256GB SD card or USB memory.
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    I would consider using the free 15 gig "Google Drive" to save your critical Documents folder and files online. Generally those are files you created or were given that won't be present if your computer is replaced because the computer was lost or damaged. If desired new files will automatically be added to the online Google Drive. In most cases, 15 gig is enough. Google Drive has other advantages such as accessing the files from your phone, tablet or someone else's computer. Plus Google Drive is fast, reliable and individual files or folders can be shared under your control.

    For an entire hard disk / solid state disk backup, I like some of the commercial products that come with an external usb hard disk and easy interface. Once you set them up once, they will automatically update everytime you plug it in. Using the backup can get a little tricky but is manageable. I would not use their cloud services.

    https://www.costco.com/seagate-one-touch-5tb-portable-hard-drive-with-rescue-data-recovery-services.product.100761181.html
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Just for laughs: shell to DOS and type ROBOCOPY, works a charm. Try a variation of one of the examples in the .bat file I posted, revise to suit your folder structure and drives.

    the format:

    robocopy [source] [destination] switches
     
    #18 Mendel Leisk, Jun 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I'm just amazed at how complicated this process still is with Windows. They've had over 30 years to fix it.
     
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think people are making it more complicated than it is. Windows may have more non-default and third-party options to back up files and system than probably Mac default setting and are certainly far more flexible (or you can say complicated) than Chrome OS if using something other than the built-in Windows default backup.

    The default Windows backup works fine and is easy to set up for most people. I don't use it, because my files are all backed up on NAS and Google Drive cloud and there is no need for me to keep files in OneDrive or set up a regular Windows system backup on a machine that I use only occasionally. On the other hand, the windows laptop I use every day for my work is 100% backed up on the system but I have no access to it since I don't have an administrative privilege to the machine.

    Consult this page if you need to back up the system and restore it at some time point. It really is a very simple two to three clicking you have to do to set the computer for an automatic system backup process on a Windows machine.
    Backup and Restore in Windows

    And, the Chrome OS which I use on daily bases makes the backup process itself a thing of the past. It is very similar to how today's smartphone backs up files and apps and settings.
     
    #20 Salamander_King, Jun 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
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