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Toyota Crown Announcement includes Toyota’s 4th Hybrid Type

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Jul 15, 2022.

  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Remember the good old days when you could get any color you wanted for a Toyota hybrid as long as it had a 1.5L THS?

    With the 6-speed Hybrid Max system, Toyota also produces the 10-speed i-Force MAX, the standard eCVT Toyota Hybrid System (THS) and their eCVT Plug-in Hybrid system.

    Two of these are for performance and the other two are for economy. The 2.4L Turbo Hybrid Max only delivers 28 mpg as opposed to the standard eCVT 2.5L THS delivering 38 mpg in the same vehicle. Both trims are AWD and have the new bipolar NiMH battery.

    Toyota Crown Returns to the US with Bold Style and New Hybrid Max Powertrain - Toyota USA Newsroom


    iPad ? Pro
     
  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    A big sedan that replaces the Avalon hybrid that gets 43+ MPG for my wife including lots of 70 MPH Interstate driving. Bah.
     
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  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    The Crown looks to be a family of vehicles, like the Prius or the Corolla.

    Looking at the videos and articles from the announcement in Japan, there will be, in addition to the Crossover type, a Sport, a true Sedan and an SUV they call Estate type.

    World Premiere of the All-New Crown Series | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

    The Sport type looks remarkably like one of the EVs in their big EV announcement back in December but the Sport Type only shows a driver side gas door like all Toyotas. A lot of YouTubers have stated this will be an EV because of the similarity but I digress. 20211214_BEV_40_s.jpg

    A close up of the Estate type (SUV) shows it has a rather restricted air intake similar to the Sport type.
    20220715_01_66_s.jpg
    Perhaps it will be a plug-in type because of the port on the passenger side like it is on the Prius Prime and Rav4 Prime. These are just my opinions and I could be wrong.

    An unlike everybody else I'm pretty sure 3 of these types will have a hatch. The Sedan type will probably sport a true trunk.
     
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Estate type looks like it could make its way here - America loves SUVs.

    Sedan and Crossover Type are cool but I doubt they'll be sold here.
     
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In the Cleanmpg video beginning, there is a quick college of photos of the crossover. It looks like it has a true trunk.

    In other news, Toyota actually made a physical prototype of that fugly SUV BEV.
    That intake isn't really restricted. It is just honest. Take a closer look at the grills of cars when you go out. Much of the grill area is blocked off and nonfunctional.

    So far it sounds like the crossover is the only one being exported.

    The estate is likely deemed too much a competitor to the Highlander and Lexus SUVs for here.

    The Crown has been an almost Japan only exclusive for 50 years. North America appears to be getting the crossover has an experiment. As a lifted sedan, it could sell better than the Avalon it replaced.

    The Avalon wasn't available in Europe. Toyota has already done a bit of model consolidating in Europe with the Corolla and Camry replacing the Euro centric ones. The Camry has been back in Europe for just 5 years, and Toyota already positions it as a luxury model there. Plus, Lexus is an option.

    So I don't see the Crown going to Europe. Maybe Australia. Wouldn't need much tooling, if any, changes to meet requirements for that market.
     
  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Other odd specs coming of Japan. Comparing the Crown Crossover Hybrid Max to the Lexus RX 500h Performance, we get some differences in power output. According to spyder7 (https://spyder7.com/article/2022/07/20/16340.html) the 2.4L Turbo on the Hybrid Max puts out 200kW (268hp) compared to the RX 500h Performance of 205kW (275hp). Over all power output is 254kW (340hp) for the Hybrid Max compared to the Lexus RX 500h of 274kW (367hp). The difference in ICE only output might be easily explained with Lexus ECU and Premium fuel recommendations.
    But spyder7 estimates the Crown to be about to be about 300kg (661lbs) so it looks like it could beat the RX 500h 5.9s for the 0-60 even with the 12hp difference. Spyder7 also claims the bipolar NiMH in the Crown also has less available capacity than the standard RX 500h NiMH battery. It'll be interesting when they compare the DIRECT4 of the RX 500h and the Crown Crossover Hybrid Max's E-Four Advanced.

    Here's some cutaways of the two different Hybrid systems offered with the Crown Crossover as well as Lexus RX 500h.

    2.4LTCrownHybridMax.jpeg
    2.4L Turbo Hybrid Max

    2.5LCrownHybrid.jpeg
    2.5L Hybrid (THS gen 4)


    RX500h.jpeg
    RX 500h

    Yeah the battery does looks a touch bigger in the RX 500h. They even has enough space on the side of the battery in the Crown to put the inverter instead of in front like the RX 500h.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Most Toyota hybrid SUVs have a larger battery than the cars in order to support the rear motor. That is powerful enough to help with towing.

    Don't think we've seen specs for the Cross rear motor, but my guess is that it is closer to the Prius E-four than RX in terms of power output.
     
  9. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Definitely wrong on this one. The Crossover type will have a trunk. So two out of the four will have a hatch? :whistle::oops:
    2023_Toyota-Crown_Platinum_003-1500x1000.jpg
    The Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid will have a 30kW (40hp) rear motor based on current European specs. All of the rest of the SUVs and the Sienna have 40kW (54hp) rear motors. The Venza and RAV4 Hybrid have anemic front motors, compared to the other SUVs, of 88kW (118hp) but they still have the 40kW rear motor. With the 2.5L THS system this will still probably put out at least 160+kW (215+hp). The Avalon Hybrid that it is replacing, puts out 160kW (215hp) and has an 88kW motor. The standard Avalon with the 3.5L V6 is capable of 224kW (301hp) but the Crown Hybrid Max looks to surpass that.
     
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  10. PaulDM

    PaulDM Active Member

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    The 38mpg turns me right off
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The press release said 340hp for the Crown Hybird Max.

    The Prius rear motor is 5kW(6.7hp).

    Anemic front motors aren't an issue. The M/G1 doesn't have the output to fully power the traction motor anyway. Need buffer in the battery for that. Which is why the SUVs with more powerful rear motors tend have some more capacity in the battery, though that might be more for longer stints of powering the rear motor. The presence of the rear motor in the Sienna doesn't increase the system power over the FWD model.

    Sounded like the Crown is getting two different rear motors. I'd guess the Max gets a more powerful one. The front traction motor could act as a generator for the rear. Going into a series mode. Making the parallel hybrid a split-power:p
    Toyota tends to underestimate in these releases. I'm guessing this will be officially rated around that of the Rav4.
     
  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Close enough to the current Avalon Hybrid 44mpg EPA that it is replacing plus it has AWD. A lot of people will forgo a couple of MPG for AWD. I'll guess it'll end up in the low to mid 40's EPA.
     
  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    So it's "crossover" in Japan but "sedan" in North America?
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Japan is also getting the non-lifted sedan one in addition to the crossover.

    The crossover is more of a sedan than the Prius is.
     
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  16. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    All 4 models will be released in the next year and a half. The one the Japanese are most interested in is the Estate (wagon). According to this article:
    クラウン4車種&同門同士で共食い勃発か!? 名門「エステート」復活の歓喜と今後の展望 - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
    translation:
    "It should be noted that the remaining Sport, Sedan and Estate are all slated for 2023. It is not yet known which car will appear at what timing, but with the exception of sedans with very different coats, depending on the timing of the appearance of sports and estate, it is possible that a three-way battle with the preceding crossover will occur."

    According to the article, they are thinking there will be some cannibalism if all four are released at once. Starting Friday, 26 August, they are already having campaigns to introduce the Crown models, called Discover Your Crown. Not sure how this will affect the release here but I'm sure it'll have something similar on September 1st.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It'll be called "Discover the Crown" in the US.
     
  18. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    And according to Mag-X website (https://mag-x.jp/2022/08/24/20859/):

    translate:
    "Following the crossover planned by reconsidering the way Crown should be, a sports SUV, sedan, and estate will be introduced sequentially over the next year and a half (that is, by the end of 2023)."

    So they predict the Sports SUV, followed by the Sedan and then the Estate (SUV). Releasing the Estate last follows standard Toyota practices of releasing their plug-in offerings after the initial hybrid offerings, if it does become a PHEV. And, again, I'm basing this assumption because of the location of a fuel door on the passenger side of the car. Until we have a complete 360 picture of it or it is released in some information I don't know for sure.
     
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  19. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Back to bestcarweb.jp, they just found out there will be a Crown Coupe and possibly powered by the Hybrid Max as a default power plant.

    衝撃発表の新型クラウンに第5のボディ「2ドアクーペ」あり!? 2025年登場か!!? - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

    translation:
    "Well, from here is the exclusive scoop information by the best car. The new crown has a total of four types of bodies, but in fact, not only that, but another "fifth body" is planned.

     It's a two-door coupe. According to sources, a convertible based on the coupe could also be set up.

    [​IMG]
    A 2-door coupe that seems to be based on the "crossover" that will appear as the first version from September 1st. The 2.5L turbo hybrid is a strong candidate for the power unit (image is a predicted CG by the best car)
     The Crown had two-door hardtops from the 3rd generation that appeared in 1967 to the 6th generation that was discontinued in 1983, but the situation at that time and now is completely different."

    Me again: I think they misspoke about the 2.5L turbo. The Hybrid Max that appears in the Crown Crossover is powered by a 2.4L turbo. Yes Lexus has the LC 500h that is powered by a 3.5L NA engine and a 132 kW (177 HP) motor based rear wheel drive coupe called Multistage Hybrid Drive, so there is a history of a luxury hybrid coupe. I guess the LC 500h will have a little competition now, probably at about half the price and it'll be AWD.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's gonna sell like hot cakes :rolleyes: