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Red Triangle & all the rest immediately after Oil & Filter Change

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by sydney2008, Sep 11, 2022.

  1. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    I've searched many threads and mine doesn't seem to fit any of those scenarios... so here goes -

    TL;DR:
    For maintenance purposes, I scheduled a detailed inspection and consultation with local dealership, was informed on arrival that they only do basic stuff like changing oil on weekends, thought "wth, it's stupid-expensive but I'm already here" so let them change the oil and engine air filter. A few minutes after I left, the "christmas tree" experience including the RED TRIANGLE OF DEATH lit up my dashboard. Now they are saying that the inverter coolant pump just happened to go out right at that time. Should I trust the diagnosis and trust them to make the repair?

    Extremely lengthy details with SIGNIFICANT INTEL in ALL-CAPS:
    After A FEW MONTHS AWAY on a work assignment, I was so happy to be reunited with my 2008 Prius (Sydney). My neighbor had been starting and moving her, but NOT TAKING HER FOR A DRIVE while I was gone, but I believe he left the headlights on throughout the time I was away because he soon had to jumpstart each time he came over (and when I returned the headlights were on when we jumped one last time). I took her to local parts shop where a 12v smart BATTERY WAS INSTALLED BY A GUY WHO WORKS THERE (I've done this previously with no issues). All seemed well but the installer left off a cable installed by previous owner and even though I suspected it was just for boosting audio speakers that were long gone, I got home and fell into the PriusChat rabbit hole (if you're reading this I know you've been there!). I didn't see anything about my "issue" but I went out and pulled the cable and it was just a harmless audio-related power cable, connected to nothing as expected. However, I also learned after 6 years of ownership - and plenty of visits to this amazing website! - that the air vent in the back was the INTAKE for the hybrid battery (I've always thought the air was exhausting through that vent - pretty dumb in hindsight). My dog and his fur, dander, and often drying-mud is always seat-belted *right there*! After learning about some of the issues that can result I was 1.) feeling really concerned about how dirty the fan and battery must be & 2.) stunned that it hasn't failed yet. I've been researching here how to dismantle and clean the fan and vent, ordered an air filter for the vent (which I'm still not sure is safe to install), replaced the cabin air filter, and cleaned Sydney within an inch of her life inside and out. Then I wanted to get a full inspection from a local dealer to make sure I'm taking the best possible care of the ol' gal as I have no interest in a newer vehicle.

    I was very specific when I scheduled the appointment that I wanted a seasoned tech who has worked on plenty of Gen2 models. I explained that I had already had a poor experience with a local competitor and I was very explicit as far as what I was looking for. The nice lady said she understood and it was no problem. She booked my appointment for Saturday along with an oil change since I had noticed that the OIL WAS QUITE LOW. I added a quart to tide me over until the weekend. This was on Tuesday or Wednesday, and I had several drives at varying speeds around town and farther afield during the week, EVERYTHING WAS WORKING FINE. I put about 60 miles on after the battery exchange and before the drop off at the dealership service department.

    When I checked in at 10am yesterday, I was told that none of the main shop techs works on Saturday. Grrr. I explained that this kind of defeated the main purpose of my visit, but I was there, the oil needed changed, and I figured it might be a good litmus test for further work at this facility (I realize now that I was already ignoring red flags for this place). The service adviser told me they could do the multipoint inspection - which is basically worthless imho, but presumably harmless - so sure, it's included, go for it.

    I started out as a “wait” customer but saw there were a ton of people waiting for their cars, I figured I wasn’t in a hurry so I went back and said I would return whenever the service was completed. They called me a few minutes before they closed (listed as 6pm online but verbally 2pm), I was already on my way since the service advisor had informed me of the closing time. She said I very badly needed an engine air filter replacement. I knew I could do that one myself but weighed the hassle of ordering the part and installing (minimal, but still...) with the dealership price ($36) and told her to go ahead with it. I love my car, trying to keep her on the road as long as possible, after all.

    The service advisor shared a clean bill of health in terms of the multi-inspection report. I pointed out that it wasn’t accurate since the TPMS has issues (light permanently on), so I would assume the rest of it could be inaccurate as well. She quickly said that it wasn’t on there because the light was already on, and so I must already know about it. And then added that she had noticed it and told the tech about it, and that was why he didn’t call it out in the inspection. SKETCHY?

    I asked the service advisor to have the tech show me the oil level and the filter - again, I was just evaluating how they responded to my interest and so forth. They both were very nice and walked me out to my car, they did not seem put out by my request. I noticed that the OIL LEVEL SEEMED A LITTLE HIGH but the tech said it was fine. He pulled the engine filter out which wasn't necessary, but okay - and I saw a little chunk of DEBRIS on the "clean" side. I actually reached in and pulled it out since that messed with my ocd a little, haha.

    I thanked them and headed out. I immediately noticed a really STRONG OIL SMELL in the cabin. I looked around and saw a few marks here and there - that technician was not the best with keeping oil smudges off of my interior. But I thought maybe some oil was spilled on the engine block as well, so I pulled over at the service station across the street to check and didn't see any evidence of that. I saw that the oil cap was on, checked the oil level again and it was the same - a little over the top mark. Everything looked okay so I headed home.

    A few minutes down the HIGHWAY (55MPH), an alarm began to go off and the dashboard lit up: red triangle with the exclamation, VSC, check engine, and ((!)). There was also a battery warning along the top of the display screen. I immediately tried to reach the service department but they were already gone. I was able to drive just fine but knew that it could be something that would destroy my hybrid battery if I kept driving. I pulled over and posted a quick review of my experience to vent my frustration while I tried to figure out what to do. I’ve ordered an OBD-II scanner but it hadn’t arrived yet, so I was pretty sure I would have to go to another dealership or take my car back to the same one to wait until Monday for a diagnosis. Of course I hopped on PriusChat and was excited when I saw a post about a quick resolution with a can of compressed air - seemed to have some similarities to my situation (though definitely some differences as well). I started looking for somewhere nearby to pick up the can of compressed air when I got a call from the dealership customer experience manager. She told me that she could have the service manager come meet me and open up the service bay so he could check my car. I understood that she was going to great lengths to try to fix the situation so I said okay. I thought I could drive back there since I wasn’t too far away, which I did. The service manager was clearly enjoying his weekend off and I was disrupting that, but he was totally nice about it and extremely polite and professional. I told him about what I had learned about debris getting in the air filter compartment. He didn’t seem to think that could be an issue and I appreciated that he wanted to get it on the diagnostic scanner to check the codes.

    He took the car in, drove it out again, took it back in and after a good bit of time passed, he emerged with a scanner displaying the code for the INVERTER COOLANT PUMP. Given what I’ve learned here on PriusChat, normally I would think that was a totally believable scenario; I’ve never replaced it and can’t say for sure if the previous owner ever did. But the timing seemed so suspect… could the old change tech have messed something up? Could the service manager have messed something up on purpose? Could I be extremely paranoid? (Definitely yes.)

    I know it could also be a bad sensor or something like that, but I’m not 100% confident that these folks would know that or that they would tell me the truth if they did. :(

    So the timing is suspect, the integrity of the service department is at least questionable based on my limited experience (and the reviews I read for other customers within the last six months; I also found a post here on PriusChat about this service facility and the extremely poor experience another owner had there). Although I really waffled about leaving my car there, in the end I was afraid I would finish off my miraculous long-lasting hybrid battery if I drove somewhere else.

    From a technical perspective, do any of you have suggestions for me and Sydney? As far as next steps: Should I trust this diagnosis? Should I trust this service department to fix it? Is it worth driving or towing about 30 miles up the coast to another dealer who seems to have impeccable reviews? What other recourse might I have?

    For anyone who read all of this: THANK YOU for taking an interest and taking the time!
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Well to start off, anytime you ask a receptionist a question about qualified technicians to service your car, you'll only get the answer of they will make sure you get what you want. How else would you bring in your car? As oil changes go, that is usually done by the most Jr. level techs, starting off in learning about car repairs. Like the new hires usually. Unless you also wanted something else to be done (like something more technical), then the Jr. techs would just do the oil change.

    I don't believe the inverter pump is the only failure detected on your car, all the warning lights that pop up does not sound familiar to just an inverter pump failure. Usually that failure has only the red triangle light up. You may very well be having an issue with the super long lasting hybrid battery, going on it's last legs. So if you fix the inverter pump, you may still end up needing a more expensive repair, just don't be shocked when that happens
     
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  3. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    The inverter coolant pumps die. Can happen most any time. It can just stop working, which will eventually cause high inverter temperature with many warning lights. Will temporarily shut down the A/C and all inverter functions if it gets too hot. Will set a P0A93 code. Other faults can cause this code but a failed pump is most common. Toyota issued a TSB about it.

    Turn your car ON or ready and look in the inverter coolant tank. If the pump works there will be some "turbulence" present. If not then have the pump replaced (Toyota part only) and move on with life. That's what a coincidence is.

    The other pump failure mode is to short and blow the AM2 fuse, which disables the car completely until the pump is unplugged and the fuse replaced. Then the pump needs to be replaced.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  4. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    I don’t currently have access to my car as it’s waiting for service at the dealership, but I’ll head over first thing this morning and see if I can take a look. I’ve watched several videos on this now and know what to look for.
     
  5. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    You mention that a blown AM2 fuse shuts the car down completely; that isn’t what happened with my Prius. Would it be safe to assume that since the car did not shut down, the fuse is not the issue?
     
  6. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    Since I made such a big deal about what I was looking for in terms of an experienced tech, I would have thought they would schedule me for during the week, when they know those guys are working. It’s such a bummer to always have to assume the worst when dealing with a “stealership” :(
     
  7. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the heads-up, I can definitely see that being a possibility at this point.
     
  8. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Pretty standard stuff here in America this is all well known and documented right here when the pump goes out lights come on especially the turtle or the car on the MFD turns red and will never turn green again until that coolant pump is running moving coolant and it's staying below some sort of temperature or something generally it's just a pump running so the pump could be running and not moving any water and the light would probably go green like if you stuff the piece of toilet paper a rag in there and the water couldn't move as long as that pump is impeller's turning I believe it'll keep the car in the MFD green and then when it finally does overheat it may set another code like inverter coolant performance or something but it will I think the pump is running which it is it's just not moving fluid which is a different problem but not one that happens. Unless the impeller broke off of its shaft or its magnet was defective and it wasn't able to turn and think it was turning.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Start with a load test of the “new 12v”
     
  10. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    Is there any chance I could drive it to another dealership for repair (maybe stopping to cool it off along the way) or is that like a guarantee that I will destroy the hybrid battery? It's really hot here so I'm pretty sure this will not be an option, but thought I would ask.

    Thank you all for responding, this has been really helpful in terms of making me feel that they are (probably) not breaking parts or making stuff up at this service department.
     
  11. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    Hi bisco, can you tell me what you are thinking might be an outcome of the load test? thanks!
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If the diagnosis is just the pump failure, you should be able to drive that to another dealer but they'll just charge you another diagnostic fee. I had this pump fail 50 miles from my home and I was able to drive it home safely without any damage (on a cooler day, under 75 degrees).

    If the hybrid battery has an issue, most of the time the rear fan will blow at high speed. The vent for the fan is on the rear passenger side, if if hear something blowing high speed from there, the battery is the suspected failure.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If that pump shorts and blows AM2, then all the things in the car downstream of the AM2 fuse go dark (which pretty much will keep the car stationary), while other things downstream of other fuses have power just fine.

    To mechanics who haven't seen Gen 2 Prii do this exact thing before, this sometimes seems very mysterious. (Which is a little weird: isn't that what you'd expect to see when one fuse has blown and others haven't?)

    The wiring diagram is a good source for which things are downstream of which fuses.

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat
     
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  14. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    That makes sense, I confirmed with the other service facility that it would make sense to go ahead and have the pump replaced where my car is now and then follow up with the new place ongoing. They have impeccable reviews so I think it will be totally worth the extra mileage to work with those folks ongoing.
     
  15. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    I will definitely be keeping an ear out for this. Thank you.
     
  16. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If you know anyone with a little DIY skill, you can easily have this changed out yourself. Buy the part from the dealer and some coolant. The dealer will charge you $700 for a 30 minute repair. You can DIY for well under $200
     
  17. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    Very cool, I'm going to check that out now! I've been learning about the basic 12v electrical system from the T-TEN program (I believe this is an intro training program for becoming a technician with Toyota) and I have to say it's really interesting stuff.
     
  18. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    I'm going to take the hit this time around, but this experience is the turning point for me where I now fully understand that there is no one I can trust to care about my car as much as me. From now on, anything that I can do myself - I will. With a lot of help from instruction videos and you amazing folks on PriusChat, of course!! Seriously, I am truly grateful for you all and this website.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's always good to know you're starting with a healthy 12v when beginning trouble shooting.

    a load test places a load on the battery as the car does when you press the power button.

    then the voltage check lets you know if the battery is healthy.

    they are free at auto parts stores here, not sure about there
     
  20. sydney2008

    sydney2008 Junior Member

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    I could’ve sworn I saw a video where the Gen 2 MFD can display the current charge on the 12v… do you know anything about that? the dealership said it was in new condition and functioning as expected. But then they also left all of the clips off of the engine splash shield (it was flapping around in there when I checked immediately after I left the dealership) so can they really be trusted? just… wow. :)