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Gen3 (2011) C1391 error, scanner software

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by rjh427, Oct 15, 2022.

  1. rjh427

    rjh427 Junior Member

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    Greetings, all.

    After a raft of new warning lights popped up on the dash, my 2011 began throwing a new error code: C1391.

    Best practice seems to be replacing both the brake master cylinder (47050-47140) & booster assembly, AND the pump/accumulator assembly (47070-47060).

    Pricey parts, those, plus dealerships around where I live seem very fond of large markups (80% on parts from the worst offender, a similar upcharge for labor as compared to a much more distant dealership).

    It's going to be hard enough to afford the parts right now, but the labor charge breaks the deal. I'm handy, I've consulted the YouTube vids and I'm comfortable with parts replacing and brake-bleeding procedures but, scanner software that doesn't cost an arm and a leg AND will run on Android or Linux seems to be the bridge too far.

    My question, is there a free or low-cost app in the Google Playstore that will properly go through the brake-bleeding sequence AND calibrate the actuator in the master cylinder?
     
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  2. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    Not that I know of. If you're willing to install Windows 10 (you don't need to activate it for 30 days) on a partition in your laptop, you could go with Techstream—a 2-day license for which costs $65. Certainly less than an arm and a leg.
    https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_pageLabel=ti_whats_tis&_nfpb=true

    Best price on the parts will be online. Lowest prices I could find right now (Serra Toyota (Decatur, AL), Serra Toyota (Birmingham AL), Lewis Toyota (Topeka KS):
    47050-47140: $571.84
    47070-47060: $557.90
    If you buy the parts new, you won't need to update the firmware (what Toyota refers to as the "calibration") for the ABS/brake master cylinder assembly since it will already have the latest firmware. Any janky old copy of Techstream obtained from "elsewhere" will do the job.
     
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  3. rjh427

    rjh427 Junior Member

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    Huh. "Calibrate" is not a synonym of "firmware update" - if you're right about that... that sort of disinfo should be criminal.

    Thank you for the other info.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It's got a long history in automotive usage. The earliest engine control modules (and current ones too, of course) would have firmware that included algorithms and also a bunch of data tables for how the engine should be run efficiently at different operating points. For the engineers, to tune the data to put in those tables was to calibrate. So a specific version of those tables, or of the entire firmware image containing them, would have a specific Calibration ID. Of course the earliest ECMs were long before most people spent much time around computers, had them in their pockets, etc. So the people mostly talking about ECMs were the manufacturer engineers, and service techs, and "calibration ID" was just the jargon that took root in that community.

    If you connect Techstream to the car and ask for a health check, it will show a column at the right with the "calibration IDs" for different ECUs. It's still called "calibration ID" even for ECUs that aren't engine control modules. Like the brake ECU. Nowadays, lots more regular folk are familiar with computers and would probably use a term like "firmare revision". It's roughly the same idea. If there is a service bulletin or recall that involves flashing updated firmware, it will state the new "calibration ID" that should be installed, and that's what you can compare to what Techstream shows on your car to see if it is up to date.

    It's not necessarily just one timeline with newer-is-better, though. Gen 3 brake ECUs came with different factory calibration IDs depending on whether they were going into the trims with the 15" or 17" wheels, and then there have been some later updates to both of those calibrations.

    There's a good chance people recycling cars and selling used ECUs aren't paying much attention to which calibration is in the one they are selling you, so you could end up with the wrong one for the car.
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Oct 15, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2022
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  5. rjh427

    rjh427 Junior Member

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    That... was actually informative. And it explains a lot. Thank you.

    it is the 21st century now though. Couldn't resist the friendly jab....
     
  6. rjh427

    rjh427 Junior Member

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    A follow-up Q:
    After replacing things like master cylinders and in the case of the Prius, the pump, the brakes will need to be bled. Is Techstream really necessary for that, or can it be done adequately w/out Techstream as demonstrated by this mechanic in this vid?
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That exact vid's been considered before; more at this post.
     
  8. rjh427

    rjh427 Junior Member

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    At that post, I saw mention of valves but in the diagram, I did not see anything I recognized as a valve, nor was there anything labeled as a valve, except perhaps by unintelligible 3-letter acronyms that were not explained - and that includes bleeder valves, of which I know there are at least five: at least one at each wheel plus one more at the master cylinder. On other vehicles I've seen bleeder valves elsewhere, such as at distribution blocks and at the front::rear proportioning valve when it isn't an integral part of the master cylinder.

    Know this: I say that as a person who worked as a job planner for piping systems repair in the US Navy for 12 years, I know what valve symbols are on blueprints, schematics, and diagrams so whatever Toyota is indicating in that diagram, it's non-standard.

    I've ran Linux exclusively since 2014, I'd rather put out a camp fire with my face than buy another Windows computer. Whether the car is "off" or in "invalid" mode, I'm going to need someone to explain this a whole lot better. Point out these alleged "valves" and especially, the areas that do not get bled properly, unless I buy a Windows computer I don't want for one-time use, in order to run another ungodly piece of Windows-only software that I have to pay for. Why do I need that Windows kruft to perform what should be a strictly mechanical operation like bleeding the brakes, even with the electrical rear brake component. Bleeding electrical trailer brakes does not require a computer with proprietary software, why does this. Please explain the "why" to me like I'm a qualified mechanic who strangely enough, has bled brake systems before but never ever before on a Prius.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There are fourteen electronically-operated valves inside the brake actuator; those are the ones the proper bleed procedure is concerned with. There are a couple mechanical valves in the system too, the relief valve in the accumulator and the servo regulator valve at the end of the master cylinder, but those kind of take care of themselves.

    Yes, the acronyms there are the names of the valves. The diagram you were looking at was copied and pasted out of Toyota's New Car Features manual, where they all are completely explained. The NCF also has repeated versions of that diagram showing the valve positions and fluid flows for all the different operating modes of the brakes.

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat

    In a forum like this one, sometimes other members will copy and paste a particular diagram or small section from the manuals as a way to help get you started on understanding something. Sometimes there will be acronyms or other details that aren't explained right in what somebody pasted for you, but it's not like some other poster, who pasted something to help you, wanted to keep you in the dark about those. It's just how many hours in a day, and how much copying out of the manuals is reasonable. As long as you know where to find the manuals those bits got pasted from, you know where to find the rest if it interests you.

    It wouldn't surprise me that Toyota's diagrams aren't drawn just the same as US Navy ones. Toyota's manuals explain Toyota's drawings, and of course that's where you'd be looking to understand them.

    Sometimes all the details aren't essential to a given question. If you're wondering "why do bleeding shortcuts made up by random youtubers not get the whole job done?", probably "there are fourteen valves there, and there can be air behind ones that are closed, and the bleed procedure programmed into the ECU knows what to do about that, and the random youtuber has no other way to" is as much as you need to know. By going to the manual, you can learn as much more as you want to about how the system operates, and that's all interesting and worth doing, but it's beyond what you need just to answer that question.
     
  10. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    i hear.. new booster installed i have to clear the stored values from the brake Actuator unit, how is this done?
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Which stored values do you mean? And is the unit giving you any trouble codes?
     
  12. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    the stored values is the part im not sure about. I did reset memory, cannot get it to start bleed process.. I think once it did by when i say it starting to go i had already begun to pack up for the day.
    Screenshot 2022-11-15 155215.png
     
  13. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    The bleeding does need to be completed in one session during which the 12V should be connected to an external charger. C1451 indicates that bleeding was not performed/completed, and it will not go away until the brakes are bled properly using Techstream.
    Do you get an error when you double-click the air bleeding utility? Or does it get stuck on a particular screen?
     
  14. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    error telling me I didn't complete all the steps to even start it
     
  15. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    wow.. heh.. Im going to try it.. i think they were telling me to do the zero_point_calibration then do the bleed...and i guess, it showed successfully on the computer yet I don't remember having the steering wheel centered... that might be it...
     
  16. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    welp.. still no cigar with this one...soon as I touch start bleed, it cancels
     
  17. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    As far as I can tell these are the only prerequisites:
    1. vehicle is in park (P),
    2. parking brake is applied, and
    3. vehicle is in IG ON.
    If you still get a message saying that the requirements were not met, I'm not sure what it could be. Are you following the guide in the repair manual step-by-step?

    On the other hand, if it is just flaking out without a descriptive error message, it could be due to the cable being used. The cheaper mini-VCI cables are known to randomly lose connection with the vehicle, and for a prolonged procedure like a brake bleed that can be an issue.
     
  18. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    using openport 2.0 and also the brake fluid level connector needs to be unplugged. I wonder if it's a techstream version issue as Ive used minivci, vcx nano(need to update firmware) and openport.

    for reference I changed the booster, think ill try to manually bleed after jumping 4 and 13