My Concerns with the New Prius

it's a tech novelty. there isn't enough surface area on a car, and angles cannot be controlled.
if you like novelties, that's what it's for.

 

I looked up 17” sizes and plugged them into a tire calculator; found very few approximating the 19”’s purported OD. And those that did seemed odd, wider than the 19” for example.

Does the transaxle “gearing” lock in the tire OD? I think it does.

anyways, maybe the show car tires are just that, may change?

 

I view it as Toyota did so well with everything else, there's not much to quibble about. Or maybe that so many of us saw it and immediately said "I want one", that our thoughts moved quickly from "Is it good/cool" to "When I buy one, I'm going to have to..." The reason I quickly fixated on the tires was because of that last bit.

 

I think the number one thing about the new car is styling with added performance without a mpg penalty.

Solar panels are a gimmick used in the past to keep the car ventilated. As before its a profit added accessory much like wheels and fancy colors. If people will buy it, Toyota will sell it.

Given the awd is not mechanically connected front to back, od really does not matter.

 

The US doesn't have decrees for higher octanes to be ethanol free. Perhaps some states. Ethanol free seems more likely outside a RFG corridoor or near areas with boating.

Maybe someone made the same mistake as with the Tundra early on. 91 RON, which the rest of the world uses, is 87 AKI in the US.

Missed that. Pretty sure the 50 is 60 for the 17 inch rim. That rim size might have a wider selection of alternative tire sizes if finding the 195 is an issue.

All modern cars do this for fuel economy and performance. They do so by advancing timing until knock is detected. It has been decades since an engine didn't have knock sensors. The only time using octane higher than regular is a requirement is when the engine's compression ratio or operating temperature is too high for the ignition timing range to compensate for the low octane. That is rare. Volvo started making it a requirement in the past couple years. So maybe some other higher end brands, but mostly its engines designed for a premium gas in another market that is higher octane than US premium; the 91 octane here is regular to that car.

A smooth running engine is a sign that it isn't taking full advantage of the fuel's octane. Midgrade might give you all the performance improvements without the smoothness.

In a hybrid, those improvements will be less noticeable. The low end torque and power improvement that would be seen in a non-hybrid are coming from the electric side in the hybrid. The car might pull more from the battery when running regular vs premium at those times, which leaves any differences noticed by the driver in the high end. Who is pushing their current Prius to its max now? The new one will have a noticeable power improvement over the current when just using regular. Maybe you get 15hp on top of the 201hp of the gen4 instead of the full 20hp.

I recall some early 2000's Toyotas calling for midgrade.

The solar roof was developed for Japan. There, the grid supply going to many homes is lower power than what we see. Level 1 would take twice as long, to ten hours, to charge the current Prius Prime, and Level 2 isn't an option at such homes. Plus, energy has a higher price if charging wasn't a issue. So the math works more in favor for the solar system. It didn't come to the US because the glass covering wasn't safety glass, but I didn't many paying for it here.

The transaxle doesn't lock the OD in, but changing the OD will change the power and efficiency ratings of the car. They would have to do more than adjust the odometer calibration before selling the car. A change in tire sizes could happen for here to something more readily available. It would be to something close to the OD to keep any costs involved low. People were also worried about ground clearance before this thread of concerns.

This is also the initial reveal. By its nature, it didn't disclose all the info on the car. With questions unanswered, people will search for clues in what was released.

 

Gen 4 has the first and more valuable cat mounted just out of the engine’s cylinders; stealing it is unpractical as you would likely need to dismantle the engine or have access to the part facing the driver.

I also saw written somewhere that they now use less rare earth minerals for the catalytic converters, don’t know if it’s true.

If Toyota goes with the Gen 4 way we should be ok.

———

PS. My Gen 2 with more than 400K km (250K miles) and still the original battery can sadly confirm that they are being also stolen in Europe

 

As best I can remember, widespread Prius cat theft began in Europe, e.g. London. It spread the U.S. a year or two later.

Prior to that, the U.S. had a much smaller level of cat theft focusing primarily on trucks and other high ground clearance vehicles.

 

RE: Premium Fuel: As long as it can take regular gasoline (and the 10% ethanol blends) I think this will be a non issue. The horsepower has increased enough with this new generation that whatever performance penalty you’re getting with non-premium fuel will be negligible for most drivers. 170..180HP (just throwing some numbers around) vs. 192 is plenty of pep.

 

Absolutely agreed.

I may be in the minority here but I am completely DISAPPOINTED in the direction that Toyota has taken with the 5th gen. The focus was more on perceived styling and "sportiness" and they probably left a LOT of MPG improvement on the table in pursuit of more horsepower, faster 0-60, bigger wheels, etc. All of which reduce MPG

I was hoping to see a close to 70mpg rating for something like a 5th gen L Eco and a 150+ MPGe rating for the most efficient Prime version as well....and the ONLY saving grace is that the Prime will get close to 40mi of EV range which is a plus...everything else to me has been a step back...especially for those who were looking for an ultra efficient hybrid in the Prius L Eco model. The MPG remains about the same at 57 and I just wonder how much more MPG they could've squeezed out of it IF they didn't go in a differerent direction with the 5th gen prius.

It looks like the era of the Prius being the ultra efficiency leader has come to a close.

Fare well.

 

70 would be tough. until we know more about the engine, i think we can assume 60mpg might have been achievable.
but here's the rub: not enough drivers care about mpg to make prius viable. many drivers do care about styling and acceleration, and they are trying to appeal to that market

 

Agreed. I understand Ming’s POV and he is probably right that they probably could have squeezed a bit more MPG out of the new Gen if they focused entirely on efficiency, but in the end, they are a business, and they need something that will sell well, and there are not enough people like those frequenting this site that feel so strongly about efficiency. Also, most of those people have moved to BEV anyway now, so they need to up the performance to make it more appealing to the mainstream buyer. If they don’t have sales, there won’t be a 6th Gen.

The fact they were able to add as much power as they did and still increase efficiency slightly (and +50% range), is still impressive.

 

true, i would have bought the gen 4 prime with a flat hatch and 40 mile range in a hear beat.
70mpg would be icing on the cake.

 

Easily my most hated design element on the new Prius - the stupid rectangle on the front bumper. It’s awful and I hate it.

Even in the demonstration videos and reveals they had a plate on it hiding it but no state I’ve ever lived in requires a front plate so now I’m going to have a weird molded in rectangular shape in my bumper? Maybe they hid sensors for radar cruise and such behind it was my first thought, but I’d think a metal plate would screw that up so surely not. Weird choice, I dislike it greatly.

Everything else people have brought up are non issues for me, but man that bumper would sure look better clean. Saw a couple pics without it but they must have been renders as all in the flesh videos have it on there.

Wait - one more complaint, lack of colors. Was excited for yellow until I see it’s not coming. Though on the prime the red seat stripes and yellow car would not be appealing I agree. Still, I demand colors Toyota! Want a prime, unsure if I’ll be able to find one in my area though. (Southeast)

 

The license plate mount is not molded into the bumper. I assume it will be included with the car when delivered to the dealer, then the dealer will install it if it's to be licensed in a state that requires front display(or if the customer requests it even if not required).

Check out the pictures of the Prius on Toyota's main website(under Upcoming Vehicles). You'll see some shots of the car sans license mount.



So why did the cars on display all have the mount(color matched, even)? I bet it was because many(all?) of the videos were taken at the LA Auto Show. California is a state that requires front plates. So if those display cars were also used for test drives by auto media in the days after the show, then they'd have to be able to mount a plate. And since installing the mount likely involves drilling holes in the bumper, Toyota had to install an extra pretty license mount for the show. I highly, highly, highly suspect the mounts that will actually come with the car will all be simple black plastic.

 

To me that is the very sad state of most drivers need for speed to keep up with all the pusher on the road that need to be driving 20 30 or 40 over without a thought of how much extra fuel it takes get up to those speeds just to have to brake and waste more fuel at the next slowdown and or stop. sheesh !!!
And that'll probably never change.
All the time bemoaning the complexity cost and present efficiency of fuel cell. All to go 20 30 or more over than hit the brakes hard.

 

That was very unlikely.

Through the generations, it has been about a 10% improvement. The current Eco going to 70mpg would be over 20%. The efficiency improvements have been with the engine, which is where all the fuel the car uses in converted. Improvements to the electrical side were more for lowering costs. Toyota gas engines are currently reaching 42%; their diesels are at 44%. Theoretically, these heat engines can reach 60%. The currently most efficient car engine is at 51%. It is in a race car, IIRC, made by Mercedes. It probably costs more than entire Prius.

The Prius isn't just an efficient car. It is also an affordable car. VW once sold a car that could beat 70mpg without grid energy; it was over 100k Euros

I now see that it has been less than 10% through the years. The combined mpg of the gen 2 through 4 is 46, 48, and 52. The gen5 looks to be within that improvement range, while also improving performance. The overall diameter to the wheels is bigger than the gen4. The bigger wheels are likely part of the reason Toyota could keep the fuel efficiency improvement up.

I live in one of those no front plate states. The 30 states that do include to most populous ones in the country. If building a car just for the US, building in the front plate bracket might make sense. But the car is made for the global market, and plate sizes aren't the same for all countries.

So maybe the show cars had a color coded bracket to comply with the local state laws without sticking out too much, as suggested, or maybe these were Japan spec models, which requires front plates across the country.

The colors issue is a Toyota thing. I'm thinking past Prius models were seen as small econo models, which seem to get more varied color choices.

When gas prices spiked in 2008, people mostly slowed down. Didn't seem to happen where I drive this time, and most cars are generally less efficient today.

 

Thinking about Toyota’s shift with this new Prius, to more horsepower, shorter 0-60 times, bigger wheels.

I’m finding whenever we’re on the road, there’s a lot of impatience, aggression, speeding, lane jumping, that whole mindset.

Toyota is catering to that crowd? To bring sales back up?

Maybe it’ll work out for them, but it’s a disappointing tack.

 

I think that the beyond zero badge on the gen 5 is a paradigm shift from the original concept .Time ... or Sales... will tell if the new direction is the good one..
I will stick to my 2022 Prime for now!
Hope that the 19 inch wheels won't fall off

 

without government intervention on the roads, toyota is pretty much out of options