1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Could I sue my mechanic for potentially installing an aftermarket catalytic converter?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by pri4u, Nov 21, 2022.

  1. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Right so are there any pictures or examples?
    You said above: “Check where the muffler connects to the first cat in case he just welded on a used cats section to your original muffler section”

    Do you have a picture/example what it looks like when a used cat was welded to the original muffler section?
    And the opposite example/picture when a new cat was used?
    I’m trying to get an idea what’s the difference between the two possibilities (bad case and good case), and a general idea of where/how to look for it once the car is lifted. Drawing on a schema/diagram will do too.

    Are you able to draw it on picture 6/11 in:
    Could I sue my mechanic for potentially installing an aftermarket catalytic converter? | Page 2 | PriusChat

    Or it’s not showing the area you refer to?

    It sounds like the area you describe is covered by the cat shield so that’s why I couldn’t take pictures of it yet.

    Thanks again!
     
    #41 pri4u, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  2. ccna101

    ccna101 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2019
    71
    23
    0
    Location:
    SFO/WashingtonDC
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I feel really bad (for you) that one must go into this length (even attempted ) of work just to fix/ doing it correctly .

    There is a lot of good information (3 pages) and I am no lawyer, but I can tell you it is much less trouble to bring the car back to the dude, have him fix, document what he done and move on, hope that this going away .

    I can not believe that which the cat shield installed and you still got ditch ? did you use the stainless steel plate ?

    Going with get anyone sign off that you cat is used / or not, is next to impossible: right ? who would do it for you ?

    The mechanic had to have some proof of where he got the replacement from, and may be he can let you see it ? why did't you ask him directly rather than going to all of this trouble ?????
     
  3. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I asked him he didn’t give me any proof he ordered it. Plus how do you know he’s not faking it or giving you proof for someone’s else catalytic that he ordered? He can also get it from a wholesale or got it long time ago so it’s not a guarantee that he has a toyota parts receipt dated after I came to him first.

    About getting the sign off for the used cat it’s ridiculous why have these laws that say it’s illegal if it can’t be enforced? These laws are just stupid if there is no legit way to tell or let the state agency to keep track of what’s being installed and linking it to a big database of new cats. They have to incorporate some smart technology otherwise the law is useless.

    I might have to resort back to talk with the mechanic and resolve it with him, but I’m trying to get more evidence before I confront him about this.

    Regarding the cat shield I’m not sure which one I have, I’ll try to get some more pictures later to post here so you could see...

    Meanwhile, you could see a picture of my cat shield in (in picture 6/11):
    Could I sue my mechanic for potentially installing an aftermarket catalytic converter? | Page 2 | PriusChat
     
    #43 pri4u, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    the mech sounds dangerous, i would be very careful
     
  5. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Yes, it’s possible that if I confront him or tell him I’ll see him in court because I got evidence, he might send someone to my address to steal the cat so there is no evidence anymore...
     
  6. rogerthat

    rogerthat Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    344
    115
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Here is that section I referenced. If he welded the cat section to the muffler section, it may be fairly obvious as it likely won't be as clean as a factory weld... or you may even see a weld right in the middle. Thieves will almost always cut this part of the pipe. Looking at your 6th pic, you should be able to maneuver a phone under the shield to snap a few pics of this area.

    InkedCat.jpg
     
    #46 rogerthat, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  7. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    So what you put in the red square is the factory weld?
    What do you call the part that is above the red square and the part below the red square and then the part that is all the way at the bottom? Are they all cats or some of them are mufflers? Or is the muffler a complete separate part from this picture, and if so, what section of the muffler is it supposed to be welded to (picture/diagram?)?

    Also is the part hanging in the picture is it’s upper part is the one that goes to the engine side (front of the car) or is it the bottom part that goes to the engine side?

    Thanks!
     
  8. rogerthat

    rogerthat Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    344
    115
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I added some labels to the photo. The red square is just a section of pipe that connects the muffler to the first cat - when new, this is factory welded. The front of the car is the Cat 2 end. Just take some photos of the section in the square and someone on this forum will likely be able to recognize if it was welded on by your mechanic. Otherwise, use Google to find images of this section on a new and used unit to compare. The photo I used was one you posted. I don't even know if that unit is oem - posted purely to show you the location between the muffler and the cat.
     
  9. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Right so basically you’re saying to take pictures where I drew the green arrow pointer which is between green markings 1 & 2 of the two “fat” objects in this picture:

    8-CCE7196-5-F83-46-BF-825-A-0-A4199-CA497-F.jpg

    So in my picture green marking number 1 is the muffler, and green marking 2 is where the 2 cats are?

    Thanks!
     
    #49 pri4u, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  10. rogerthat

    rogerthat Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    344
    115
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, that is the same location.
     
  11. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    So in my picture green marking number 1 is the muffler, and green marking 2 is where the 2 cats are?
    If so, why my muffler looks so big, old and brown color compared to the picture with your red markings where the muffler appears to be much smaller, new and more silver/shiny in color?
     
    #51 pri4u, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  12. rogerthat

    rogerthat Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    344
    115
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    As mentioned before, the photo I marked up was one you posted with description "this is what they sell at the shop, a brand new catalytic converter"...so not surprising it looks new! I have no idea whether it is oem or aftermarket - again, I just used the photo to direct you to the area between the muffler and 1st cat. I think you finally now understand the relative positions. Anyway, post a few photos of that section so we can rule out the dumbest possibility.
     
  13. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Yes, I understand now, thank you for that... I was just wondering if mine was really new, you would think that the muffler would look new, shiny and silver in color... Mine looks bloated/big and brown color - So is it possible that it's my original muffler like you said? Since the thieves only steal/cut the 2 cats portion, but they leave the muffler portion intact? And then like you say, he rather weld 2 used cats to my existing old muffler than to put an entirely new catalytic converter part? Because I would think that the muffler should have been replaced too, since it comes as one big part which includes both the muffler and the 2 cats? So isn't this proves already that it's not a new "entire" catalytic converter?
     
  14. rogerthat

    rogerthat Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    344
    115
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Correct. However, I doubt your mechanic was dumb enough to do that, but its best to first rule it out.
     
  15. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    But look at the picture, it's already visible that the muffler is old and brown. I know the places/people I spoke with told me that the catalytic loses it's shininess as soon as the car gets heated (although I don't know to which portion of the catalytic converter they refer to that loses it's shininess the cats portion or the muffler portion or both?), but I barely drove like two days since I got the car back - So not sure if it will look this bad so quickly? But I get what you are saying now, basically you say not to just confirm it by the looks of the old muffler, but also confirm that the cat 1 is welded to my existing old muffler in the portion where they connect.

    The other thing is how the other two shops were able to tell that it's used so quickly? Given that only thing they see when they lift my car is the muffler portion since the cats portion is covered with the cat shield, I think they decided it looks used just by looking at the muffler portion. But I will get those photos and confirm again.

    Thanks!
     
    #55 pri4u, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  16. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Is it considered legal for him to keep my intact old muffler, get a new catalytic converter oem, cut the cats from it, and then weld it to my muffler? Is it considered for him that he didn't sell me a "used" catalytic converter in this case? What would be the logical reason for him to keep my original muffler and not to replace it entirely if he receives the new oem as one long part that includes both the muffler and the cats (also it's a little suspicious he got the new original oem so quick given that there is a nationwide shortage and Toyota dealer needs 6 months to get it!)?

    Is the part highlighted (part number 17410-21500) in my insurance estimate:
    breakdown.PNG

    Supposed to replace the entire catalytic converter which would include the muffler as well? Or theoretically he could decide that he just keeps my existing muffler intact and welds to it the cats (which I guess logically speaking he could just get the cats from some junkyard as used or stolen and basically take the rest of the money to himself)?

    Btw, the check engine light that he removed is back now. It's the same code related to the catalytic.

    Thank you!
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    7,478
    4,374
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    The cat is supplied separate from the muffler. Why why why?
     
  18. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I was under the impression that it’s one part based on @rogerthat picture above with the red markings/labels

    https://parts.lakelandtoyota.com/p/toyota__/PIPE-Exhaust-ASSEMBLY---Catalytic-Converter-Front-Catalytic-Converter-InclResonator/3900473/1741021500.html

    What’s the part that @rogerthat marked as the muffler then? And what’s the relation of it to the muffler or how does it connect to it?
     
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    7,478
    4,374
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    Look up the cat on napa. Just changed one. Big chance you have a bad o2 sensor. Body shops often miswire bosch replacements. Don't be a fool, apologize to your mechanic and get the car fixed.
     
  20. pri4u

    pri4u Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    113
    12
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    How do I look up the cat on napa, got a link?
    I haven’t accused my mechanic of anything yet, but two shops told me that it’s used, so I’m trying to get to the bottom of it...
     
    #60 pri4u, Nov 25, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022