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What's the most difficult catalytic converter protector to cut?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by pri4u, Dec 1, 2022.

  1. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    3 hours? Baloney. Stainless is not hardened steel. Try dozer blades.
     
    #21 alftoy, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    CR94 likes this.
  2. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    Yes it looks like a piece of junk... You get what you pay for!
    Either do my way which is cheap ($50 (install yourself) - $150 (with labor)) but solid shock/tilt sensor to factory alarm way better than this motion sensor running on batteries which could go bad any moment... Or get a proper viper aftermarket alarm which will be at least $250 for the basic version up to $500 for a more advanced one.
     
    #22 pri4u, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
  3. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Show your thief which sawzall blade to buy. 30-50 second cut. 3 hours????

     
    #23 alftoy, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
  4. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    Those are thin stainless steel, the thickness matters too! Look at the $300 option picture it’s THICK, I don’t think it will be one minute to cut it even with sawzall plus it’s a cage they will have to cut in multiple places it’s going to generate lots of noise along with my tilt factory alarm sensor I don’t think they will bother with it... Regardless it’s not going to cost me anything as I’m getting a new credit card sign up bonus which I paid mostly the new cat with, so I’m going to give it a shot and will report back if it gets stolen again...
     
  5. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    He is cutting 1/2 inch steel at the beginning of the video, not thin stainless.
     
  6. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    That’s under the assumption that all thieves use sawzall. What if many don’t know about it or don’t have access to it because it’s too expensive to buy one?
     
  7. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Hilarious, :ROFLMAO: steal a cat and have enough money to buy a sawzall?
     
    #27 alftoy, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
  8. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    UPDATE: I tried to do the $300 option, I showed them the picture from the review, and told them I want the same thing. They told me that it's not a truck, so it will be for the whole body, but they said it will be better. Originally they told me 2 hours, but it took them only 40 minutes to complete using only 2 metal pieces so it didn't look like a cage at all (I doubt it provides any better protection than the plate):

    IMG_2794.JPG

    IMG_2795.JPG

    IMG_2796.JPG

    He welded it to the catalytic converter which I don't think it's a good idea if there is a leak or anything. So I was very disappointed with their work. He ended up reimbursing me, and putting a new Toyota oem piece.

    So now I'm either left with the $450 option or findings some other options...
     
    #28 pri4u, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
  9. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    Similar work like they did is not recommended on the MillerCat website (similar pictures to what they did): https://catshield.com/blogs/news/tips-to-avoid-damaging-your-converter-while-trying-to-protect-it
     
  10. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    @Mendel Leisk @alftoy

    So there is a new protection option -

    I just spoke with Morse Muffler shop: For $300, they install their custom solution: a High Tensile Chain Kryptonite hardened steel

    -They say they bring it from the east coast and their customers are happy with it
    -It’s welded to the frame and it’s welded to the catalytic cones (where welding is allowed and will not cause any rattling).
    -They claim that you can’t cut it with Sawzall - That to cut it, you need some serious equipment that requires oxygen or some other material plus high voltage outlet.

    Does that seem like a better option? Anyone did something like this? How does it compare to CatClamp or other chain protection solutions?

    Thanks!
     
    #30 pri4u, Dec 27, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  11. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

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    Fwiw, a Pewag security chain is one of the best.

    A Kryptonite Chain is a name-brand chain.
    Yea, "it's good".
    Yea, a big Kryptonite Chain takes a very long bolt-cutter to cut. And, it's still a PITA to cut with a big bolt-cutter. So, it is good against the 5-10 second, mid-day, in a crowd, bike theft.

    So what?
    That's not how cat thieves steal cats.
    Have you ever seen, or heard of, a cat converter thief use a Bolt-Cutter?

    A Kryptonite Chain is butter against a good right angle grinder and blade.
    A Kryptonite Chain is a slight effort for a Milwaukee 18V Fuel Sawzall, along with with a new Milwaukee or Diablo blade.


    Here's a $200 Bet!

    Yes, right here on the Interweb, in public.
    Using my Milwaukee 18V Fuel Right Angle Grinder, I can cut through one link of his "super duper chain" within 90 seconds.
    Btw, "My momma didn't raise no fool". :) A Milwaukee 18V Fuel Right Angle Grinder can cut a link in one the best chains made, a Pewag Grade 120 (Grade 120 is "new" recent stronger chain grade), in ~30 seconds. :)

    Btw, if a video doesn't show a Milwaukee 18V Fuel Sawzall (with a big fully charged battery), along with with a new Milwaukee or Diablo blade, then, imho, they aren't using best.
    Similar with the Right Angle Grinder. The Milwaukee 18V Fuel Right Angle Grinder is also a beast!


    Some reference videos:

    What are the Different Grades of Chain | Learn the Different Types of Chain Grades
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih0ny1aivwU
    What are the Different Grades of Chain | Learn the Different Types of Chain Grades
    US Cargo Control
    Mar 31, 2015
    




    *GOOD!*
    (930) Die Grinder versus Locks - How Long?
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbYVmRNzGLc
    (930) Die Grinder versus Locks - How Long?
    BosnianBill
    Oct 4, 2016
    



    Pewag Hardened Square Link Chain Review
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbCMpDFDqNo
    Pewag Hardened Square Link Chain Review
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    Nov 19, 2014
    




    Peweg [sic] 1/2 inch grade 120 angle grinder test
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbH3gOzhdKk
    Peweg [sic] 1/2 inch grade 120 angle grinder test
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    Jan 16, 2017
    




    BTW, I did find a video test of a sawzall verses the Pewag 80 Chain.
    But, I can't find the link anymore.
    It took approx 1min for the sawzall to cut through one link of the Pewag 80 Chain.
    Note, that was without using any cutting oil (which is the correct way to do it), or cooling the cutting blade with a spray water bottle (Held and sprayed by someone else. Which is a cheap "pretty good" alternative, and there's no oil sprayed all over the person/area).



    Cordless Battery Powered Grinder VS Peweg [sic] Security Chain
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3VTyNGPuVo
    Cordless Battery Powered Grinder VS Peweg [sic] Security Chain
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    Oct 15, 2014
    



    Cutting Kryptonite chain lock
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HesUQfr6Als
    Cutting Kryptonite chain lock
    Denis Bike Mechanic
    Feb 7, 2020
    




    Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit Chain - angle grinder test on one of our bike lock picks
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9SEThrJMY
    Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit Chain - angle grinder test on one of our bike lock picks
    Wirecutter
    Dec 13, 2017
    



    12mm Kryptonite New York Bike Chain VS Angle Grinder
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K8ySO_Ihz8
    12mm Kryptonite New York Bike Chain VS Angle Grinder
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    May 18, 2015



    Best Strongest Security Chain Bolt Cutter Cropper Proof Chain
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSnS4ZkTGUY
    Best Strongest Security Chain Bolt Cutter Cropper Proof Chain
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    Oct 12, 2014
    



    Peweg [sic] 1/2 inch Grade 120 BLUE chain Bolt Cutter Test
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujelHfT1onA
    Peweg [sic] 1/2 inch Grade 120 BLUE chain Bolt Cutter Test
    Wayne Winton Locksmith Influencer Business Mentor
    Jan 15, 2017
    




    Good Luck!
     
  12. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

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    Fwiw, Mendel uses a "loose" chain wrapped around the converter.
    That makes it much harder to cut!
    However, getting the right amount of tightness around the converter is very important. Iirc, Mendel has a degree, and plenty of experience, as a Mechanical Engineer. Knowing how to properly design and specify something, is a very different skill set than knowing how to repair machines.

    Fwiw, being a mechanic or technician today, is extremely hard. There are hundreds of models/generations of vehicles. And, many require very different knowledge to use the scan tools and diagnostics.
    Just like with any other profession, there are great, good, and poor mechanics.

    Good Luck!
     
  13. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    I guess there is no perfect solution:

    -cat shield plate - they can remove the screws or get the same screwdriver to get it off, and cat shields as a con also rattle and can cause overheating because it covers the entire catalytic converter (not to mention they can be cut too).

    -custom rebar cage/steel/stainless steel/chain welding still can be cut despite what some shop owners claim that it takes 3 hours or almost impossible to cut with sawzall.

    Not sure if there are any other good alternatives... I’m starting to give up and maybe just keep the tilt/shock alarm along with the cheap plate shield, have comprehensive insurance and call it a day, other than maybe getting the car inside an indoor garage which could cost too.
     
  14. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

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    Correct, the battery-powered tools, and their blades/etc have become extremely good.


    That's incorrect. Don't buy/get cheap cr*p. You get what you pay for.
    Toyota, and other manufactures, have been using the MillerCat cat shields for many years.
    When installed correctly, they do not make noise, and they do not cause the cat convertors to overheat.



    In reality, it takes ~10-30 seconds to cut through rebar, or other rods.
    Search YouTube.
    Plus, ask the lying *******holes, what "Stolen Space Alien Technology" do they use to cut the stuff? Or, maybe it's Magic!
    Lmao, a die grinder will eat through anything (they would use), like the die grinder is starving.

    A stainless steel plate, would take the longest, because it's the most linear area to cut, and the "hardest" practical plate. Plus, it dulls sawzall blades, cutting disks, drill bits, and so on, extremely quickly if cutting oil, or a cooling water spray isn't used. Even with cutting oil, Stainless steel that is 1/8" thick, will wear down a lot of tools.
    Stainless steel that is 1/4" think, will wear down a lot of tools very quickly. That's why the high-ends Truck cat shields use 1/4" Stainless Steel (costs are ~$600-$1,500+).
    My guess is that almost no one with a Gen2, or Gen3 Prius wants to spend $600+ on a 1/4" cat shield. Iirc, there is a company that would do a custom 1/4" Stainless Steel cat shield. Costs start at ~$700+.


    Imho, I still think the best option is a good Stainless Steel Cat shield, and a Custom-installed alarm, with at least one sensitive electronic tilt sensor.
    Or, a late 60's Firebird, Camaro, or Mustang (no catalytic convertor :)). :)


    Good Luck!
     
  15. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    I’m confused, on one hand you say that all the custom rebar steel can be cut relatively easily with the right tools, what makes you say that catmiller stainless steel with rod bolt cat shield is an ok option? isn’t it a thin metal plate that they could cut even easier not to mention they can buy the same part and use the screwdriver that comes with it or get the screws out without even the need to cut it?
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    What! I better stifle this. I had grade 12 “equivalency”, certificates for Drafting - Structural Steel, Concrete and Civil, and Drafting - Steel Detailing. Most of my years were with consulting engineering firms, drafting, then mostly checking. About 3 years steel detailing. I did lean towards materials handling projects, structural end of conveyors, chutes, hoppers, head end towers structures. Definitely not an engineer though.

    My chain wrap has a few advantages I can see:

    1. It was easy/cheap to do. (I did have all components on hand; cost me nothing. I'd suspect if you bought everything, ie about 6 foot of sturdy chain, ~10 nuts/bolts, and a tube of permanent thread-lock, it'd be about $20~30 USD at most.)
    2. It's deterent value (tendency to make thief move on, to an easier target) is likely close to a shield.
    3. It's not drilling any extra holes, very easily reversible.
     
    #36 Mendel Leisk, Dec 28, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  17. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    Ok so I found this video by MillerCat “Miller CAT Cat Shield vs Milwaukee Sawzall and Diablo Carbide Tip Blades”:



    Video description says: “We put our shield materials to the test and put them up against the top of the line sawzall and blades on the market. There are videos out there that show how other catalytic converter cages, shields, guards, are ineffective against the right tools. So we decided to use the tools thieves use to demonstrate how we stack up against the rest. The Milwaukee Super Sawzall and Diablo Carbide Tip Blades were no match for the 304 stainless steel. The bottom line, our .059" stainless is the strongest deterrence out there and burned out the blades after only a few inches. While this material is thinner than our .125" 304 stainless, it performed better because the vibration of the material actually heats up and burns out blades faster than thicker material. As you can see, aluminum, even at .190" is less effective but can gum up a blade. Aluminum is a great visual deterrence, but the stainless steel is a far greater material. Just to make a point, we cut through .375" mild steel. While it took awhile to cut through it, the blade remained intact. This is to prove that its not the thickness that matters, but the quality of the material. Thanks for watching and see what kinds of shield we offer for your vehicle at www dot catshield dot com.”

    And for my screws/screwdriver concern, I found this:

    https://catshield.com/blogs/news/which-level-of-screws-are-right-for-me

    Where they say “We at MILLERCAT do not mess around when it comes to security and that certainly applies to our screws and security keys. We only have TWO LEVELS of protection, BETTER and BEST. Every Cat Shield comes standard with our BETTER LEVEL protection.

    BETTER LEVEL. Perfect for most people, our Better Level is more secure than most people's best level of protection. That is because our Better Level comes with patented tamper-proof screws. What this means is that no one can buy these screws or keys online or at your local hardware store. Rest assured a thief cannot just bring their torx bit keys and try to take off the shield. We source our screws from a highly reputable security company and have an exclusive contract with them.

    BEST LEVEL. For those who want to go the extra mile, we developed a proprietary custom screw and key for those who want the ultimate level of protection. This asymmetric design is etched with our MILLERCAT name on each screw.”

    So I should get the 304 stainless steel and best level of screws (that’s extra $30 for miller cat custom screws as opposed to the standard tamper proof screws which could be useless if they get the same screwdriver from a new millercat shield)?

    Here is a prius gen2 v2 package they sell on amazon (B0BJ633SFC) for $330 that includes a deadbolt (also stainless steel) - which is an added layer of security - the tricker thieves are circumventing ways to get around the flat shield design. can’t have that. the deadbolt prevents that:

     
    #37 pri4u, Dec 28, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  18. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    But you didn't address the elephant in the room: The MillerCat shield cat can be cut as well, so why are you saying it's a better option than a cage/rebar? Do you work for MillerCat?

    Edit: I re-read again what you wrote about the cat shield and why it's better, and I'm starting to understand now, especially with seeing the video below that they provided...

    Unless you say this video by them is proving it can't be cut and is superior to all other options:



    :giggle:

    Because I'm seriously considering this option, it's $330 the 304 (which is essentially 1/8" thick that you explained about above) stainless steel catmiller cat shield version 2 that covers the entire catalytic and has the deadbolt - and probably I'll add the miller custom screws so they can't remove the screws easily if they got the same catshield parts kit - as well as labor is $95 so that's a total of $330 + $30 + $95 = $455 so I want to make sure it's well spent money.

    I also think to add $10 hangers to prevent rattling (the one you said shouldn't happen supposedly):

    They offer:

    "Select our recommended Hangers and SAVE $5.00 - What's this product?

    RECOMMENDED (+15) Hangers"

    Should I get it?

    It says it's for:

    "Toyota Prius Exhaust Hangers
    8 reviews
    Regular price$20.00 USD
    SKU: TOY-EX-HANGERS

    Prius Gen 1 and 2 owners (2001-2009) are highly recommended to change their rubber exhaust hangers when adding a Cat Shield. After over a decade of wear and tear, your hangers should be replaced to eliminate any rattling of the exhaust with the shield."

    Because I don't want the cat shield to rattle... Is it a must?
     
    #38 pri4u, Dec 28, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  19. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    But to do this method, I need to cement the bricks to the ground? Otherwise, they can lift it with a jack, remove the bricks and it doesn't really prevent anything? I tried to google it, but couldn't find any actual examples or videos that someone did something like this...
    Another thing I was thinking is maybe to get a guard rail post like this:

    https://www.thecarycompany.com/single-safety-guard-rail-post-yellow-18-inch

    upload_2022-12-28_15-43-29.png

    From both sides of the car, since they can only jack the car from the sides I believe? With enough room to open the car doors, but not enough to be able to jack the car... (Most 2-3 ton trolley jacks have a lift height of 15" at the front of the Prius, the Prius clearance is 5", so 20" for a body to slid under, less so towards the midsection of the car)
    But then again, that's something that needs to be permanently attached to the ground, so it's not a quick and easy solution...
    I was hoping there is maybe like a big cage or something you enter your car inside that protects it (and yes, I'm aware that it's not a car garage I'm talking about)

    Does anyone know something like that could make it hard or almost impossible to jack the car?
     
    #39 pri4u, Dec 28, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  20. pri4u

    pri4u Member

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    It looks like the hangers could be bought for less for $10 in autozone and also they say if you recently changed your catalytic converter, then it's unlikely that you need new hangers as the mechanic most likely put new hangers, but I will confirm that with my my mechanic who will install it...