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Should I get a Subaru Outback as my next vehicle?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Isaac Zachary, Dec 31, 2022.

  1. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I hope to use the Avalon for as long as possible. And hopefully by the time it dies used car prices go back to normal.

    But what if the Avalon were totaled tomorrow (and I survive)?

    In trying to find a car I like it seems that the Subaru Outback is as close as I can find to what I want. Things that are important to me are:

    1. Spare tire.
    2. Fuel mileage.
    3. Safety (the Outback is on the IIHS Top Safety Pick+ list and has a 5 star rating with NHTSA).
    4. Can pass the Moose Test.
    5. Passenger room (mainly leg room, not head room).
    6. Not a RWD (I'd prefer FWD).
    7. Towing capacity (or it has to be a pickup).
    8. Cargo room. (I like the station wagon style over the CUV style).
    The RAV4 Prime came close, but is way more expensive. And last I checked, it wasn't on the IIHS's Top Safety Picks and had a 4 star crash rating. It also lost control in the Moose Test.

    Another vehicle in mind is the Ford Maverick, which may get better fuel mileage. I don't need the AWD aspect of the Outback. I did fine today towing around my trailer with a snowblower on it in my Avalon in 8" of fresh snow.

    Any other good candidates out there?
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    When I was looking for our second car, I tested all Subaru line ups. It was 4 years ago, so things probably have changed. But the Outback was by far the best car out of 4 models I drove that day. The Assent was not out yet, so the Outback was the largest, I think. The price was out of my reach. I ended up buying a used Pathfinder Hybrid instead.

    Just curious, what is the difference between Station wagon style and CUV style?
     
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  3. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    A station wagon should be shorter but longer. Basically it's a sedan or hatchback, but with a really long hatchback, whereas a CUV is taller and shorter, or more Jeep-like if you will.

    But the idea of a shorter, yet longer vehicle has the following advantages (at least in my mind):
    1. Lower center of gravity.
    2. Better aerodynamics.
    3. Easier to reach the roof (for both cleaning of snow or adding a cargo carrier if need be).
    4. May have more leg room at expense of head room.
    Historically the station wagon was the better option, and still would be if they were still offered. Take Mazda for an example. When they ditched the Mazda 6 Wagon for the CX-5 the CX-5 had less passenger room, less cargo room, less power, got worse fuel mileage, yet cost more than the 6 Wagon. Taller is worse in my opinion for all these reasons.

    Ya, price is a problem for me too. I got a $10,000 5-year loan with the used Avalon. The Outback is three times that. Ouch!
     
    #3 Isaac Zachary, Dec 31, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2022
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    At the time when I was looking, Legacy was the only car I could stretch my budget. I remember looking for used, but people tend to keep Subaru for a long time. I couldn't find anything less than 10 years old.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I like your list, especially #1. But, is there anything on the road that can pass the "moose test"?
     
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  6. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Like Toyotas, Subaru's hold their value well and high mileage units should factor in head gaskets fixes (similar to having a hybrid repair fund). Our 2015 OutBack 2.5 Limited was an outstanding vehicle. If you need power (towing, mountains), the 3.6r is the beast to have but prices/availability/FE are issues with that model. Most of the lower priced units don't have eye-sight (must have option IMO).
     
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  7. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Beginning in 2019, all Subarus have the eyesight safety suite -- except for the few manual tranny models. Subaru said they have not found a way to pair with manuals.

    Love my 2019 Outback, except I KNOWINGLY went with the 2.xx engine - knowing it would be slow and pokey -- and it is. But the 3.xx sucks down fuel like a frat boy at a New Years Eve party,,,,

    To be frank, for 95 percent of my driving the smaller engine is fine,

    Also, since it is a bit top-heavy, have to be a bit cautious and not take curves too fast,,,,
     
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  8. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    I like Subbys but you may also want to compare with Mazda's. My daughter has a CX-5 and I'm very impressed with it. Like Toyota, the oil isn't very dirty when I change it at 5,000 miles or 6-months, whatever comes first. The same for the transmission fluid when I changed it last summer. I haven't seen a Corolla Cross in person, yet, so those might be a worth looking at...not sure how expensive they are.
     
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  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I drove a pair of Outbacks for a bit over a decade.

    I really loved each one, replaced a '98 with an '06. I think they were a great jack of all trades. Not perfect for anything, but if you only have one precious parking space and you want to be ready for anything, the Outback is tops. I got my first one when I lived in NYC.

    Now I have more parking space available to me (and family requirements that force us to have two cars) so I see no point to owning an Outback anymore.

    The current FB series engines are much better than the old EJs, predicted to have many fewer problems and on track to showing it. On the other hand, there's not much love for the Subaru CVT, and towing doesn't make that better.
     
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  10. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    I have owned an Outback in the past and it ran forever (over 300k miles but with periodic oil leak issues) and I currently own a Subaru Crosstrek. I have two issued with the recent 6 cylinder Outback:
    1. All Subarus come with a CVT transmission. They have a limited life due to wear issues (100k to 150k miles, especially in their heavier vehicles). Our Crosstrek is only driven about 6k miles/year (spouse's car) so that was not an issue for us.
    2. The 6 cylinder engine requires Premium fuel which is expensive. Subaru's four cylinder engines use regular fuel making that a better choice.
    I agree that "eyesight" is a great feature. It outperforms Toyota's Video plus radar system using stereoscopic video and advanced 3D image processing.

    JeffD
     
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  11. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Oh, just a heads-ups. Oil consumption is an issue, Mine uses a quart every 5K, just about the time I change it,,,Has since it rolled off the lot, And sorry for the commas instead of periods.New keyboard....
     
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  12. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    I like Subbys too; but the mileage and head-gasket issues on the last generation engines was a non-starter for me.
    I do prefer manual transmissions, but I think they are only available in the Impreza and possibly the Crosstrek line-up.
     
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  13. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    What do you mean? What I can find says the Subaru Outback can, or at least did, at speeds up to 70kph. Others cars either do or don't.

    That's good to know. It looks like the CX-5 has some of the best crash ratings in it's class and passes the moose test. It looks like it has a tow rating and comes with a spare tire too. It is also a bit cheaper.
    Sadly, it looks like it has worse fuel mileage than the Subaru. Again, which is why I dislike tall-for-no-reason vehicles.

    Out Of 20 SUVs, Only The 2021 Mazda CX-5 Passed This New Crash Test (goflatoutph.com)

    As I said before, too bad they nixed the Mazda 6 Wagon. It looks like even the Mazda 6 Sedan is no longer available. Oh well, what's dead is dead.

    Thanks all for the comments! Every last one of them is helpful!
     
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  14. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Oh, just as an aside, or two,,,,

    Two major reasons I bought the Outback:
    1) All-wheel drive, so I can "explore." And, yes, lots of cars have AWD now, but the "symetrical AWD" is supposedly superior.

    2) The safety aspect. Seems there is a lot more traffic out there and a lot more fools and I need every advantage I can get.

    The problem with the Eyesight is that it is a bit of a nag. And you can turn off things such as lane departure, but they come back next time the rig is started up. Sort of like driving with your --- well --- won't say the first word I thought of -- but I get in trouble either way, so I will say "like driving with your mother-in-law."
     
  15. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Here is a car that cost around $24,000 that did very well.


    Kia Niro Performs Surprisingly Well In The Moose Test (msn.com)

    Kia Niro Performs Surprisingly Well In The Moose Test (motor1.com)

    "The test driver says the vehicle has very predictable reactions and at no point feels uncontrollable around the cones. In fact, the Niro is able to change its direction at the final section of the test course, unlike any other car. This is quite surprising to hear as we’ve never thought about the Niro as a driver’s car."
     
    #15 John321, Jan 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2023
  16. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Thanks!

    For me AWD is nice but not needed. I towed around a trailer with a snow blower on it this weekend in my FWD Avalon in 8 inches of snow. I almost needed chains, but ended up getting around just fine with the snow tires on it.

    If I could get a vehicle like the Subaru for $5,000 less with only FWD and just use chains when needed I'd be perfectly happy. But the Subaru doesn't come in a FWD version, so I'll just have to use chains less often, except when I go over passes. If I would use chains on a highway in a 2WD I will use them in an AWD regardless of how good the AWD system is. AWD doesn't help stop the vehicle coming down a steep mountain pass on slippery roads.

    True, and it has excelent fuel mileage being a hybrid. But it doesn't come with a spare tire nor can I find a tow rating for it.
     
  17. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Many do tow with the Niro but it isn't advised. From personal experience you would have to be a little nutsy to tow any large load with the Niro.

    Towing with a Kia Niro EV - Walkthrough - Bing video

    We carry a tire repair kit and an air pump. My temp spare is kept in the garage where it can be bought to the car in case of a dramatic tire failure. Our insurance has a complementary emergency road service rider on it also. Works for us. A spare tire kit will fit into a NIRO HEV and EV (not a PHEV though) and can be ordered for around $100 on ebay - that is how I got mine.

    I was responding to the individual who spoke about the "Moose Test". His impression may have been similar to my first impression which was - how well does a car hold up when it hits a Moose.
     
    #17 John321, Jan 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2023
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  18. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Ya, the reason for asking about towing capacity isn't because it's imossible to tow without, but rather I wouldn't want to do something that might invalidate the warranty nor do I like aftermarket tow hitches that drag down on the ground. I also would like to be able to rent a Uhaul trailer from time to time, but they won't rent you one if your car isn't rated for towing. At least I don't thing they will.

    My Avalon is not rated for towing, yet I do have a tow hitch on it. But it was used without any kind of a warranty. I also had to weld up a custom made one so it would come out flush with the bottom of the vehicle, not dip down like an aftermarket one would.

    Does the spare tire fit in the car where it doesn't take up valueable space? I could throw a spare tire in the back of any car. I also tend to buy a whole set of snow tires on rims for every car I get, including the Avalon. But if it's just taking up valuable trunk space I'd rather not go that route. I want it firmly attached and not take up space.

    The area where I live doesn't work well without a spare tire IMO. Here it's dozens of miles between towns with very, very few houses in between. And a lot of these roads do not have cell service. The last time someone in the family called to get a tow truck it didn't come until three days later even though he had been paying for such roadside service insurance. I'd rather not rely on any roadside servies if I can help it. And once in town, the last time I got a flat tire fixed the local tire shop was so busy that it took them a whole week. So I really, really want a spare tire for all those reasons.

    Let me put it this way:

    If neither towing nor spare tire were that important, I'd go for a Prius Prime or maybe even a Chevy Bolt, mainly for economic reasons, but may depend on how either stacks up to safety features and tests.

    If only towing weren't important I'd go for a Camry Hybrid (has a spare) which isn't much different than my Avalon and last time I looked had a 5 star crash test rating and was on the IIHS's Top Safety Pick+ list.

    But if towing and spare are on the RAV4 Prime yet it's a CUV (I'd prefer something more sedan-like), doesn't do well on crash test and it costs more than I can afford, I'd probably go for something else, like the Subaru Outback that's a little more on par with what I'm after.

    P.S.
    My trailer has a 1,200lb GVRW / about 250lb curb weight. I'm not looking for a vehicle with excessive towing capabilities. Nothing a Corolla couldn't handle if it had a tow rating.
     
    #18 Isaac Zachary, Jan 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2023
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    For comparison vehicles, don't forget the RAV4 Hybrid, not just the much more costly Prime:

    upload_2023-1-1_17-13-18.png


    Check again:

    upload_2023-1-1_17-0-46.png
    upload_2023-1-1_17-1-4.png
    The Hybrid is 5-star overall, though two elements of that are just 4:

    upload_2023-1-1_17-18-20.png

    Whereas the regular Outback also with 5-star overall, has just one 4-star element:

    upload_2023-1-1_17-19-31.png

    I'm seeing that the RAV4 Hybrid passed the Moose Test after a VSC update. I'm see an indication that the Prime was also being updated, but don't yet see a final result.

    I haven't sifted through your other requirements.
     
    #19 fuzzy1, Jan 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2023
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  20. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    That's excellent news and puts the RAV4 on the radar!

    I wonder if the rear seat leg room is any better than the last time I got into one. I guess I'll have to do some research.

    The RAV4 Hybrid only gets 3 highway mpg more than the non-hybrid. I wonder if it's worth it. I don't seem to benefit much from having a hybrid Avalon around town as I seem to get only 20mpg. The town just isn't big enough as my engine is just finally warming up to temperatures that allow the engine to shut off right about the time I reach my destination. Other than that I'm on the highway with no stoplights or stop signs for dozens of miles until practically the end of the trip.

    Too bad the RAV4 Prime is so much more expensive. I do need to sit down, do the math, and see if there's any way I could justify over $10,000 more for the Prime in fuel costs, but I highly doubt it.
     
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