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I'm kind of sad the more I learn about Teslas

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by Isaac Zachary, Feb 17, 2023.

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  1. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Now don't get me wrong, I think Tesla is a great company and they make great cars and such. I also enjoy learning more about their technology. I could go on and on about how I like how they're using different battery chemistries in different vehicles, how they've done it right with their induction motors and IPM-SynRM's and such.

    But then there are things they do that just hit me where it hurts. For an example, my family and I enjoy a couple AM radio stations, moreso than any of the FM stations. We live out in the country where LTE signals are sparse and so enjoy FM, AM and even SW radio. We've tried web music apps such as Pandora and Spotify, but really don't do these anymore since, for an example, I don't get an LTE signal between home and work.

    But I found out the other day that Tesla and others don't include AM radio. Ok, so at least there's FM and I can probably get some sort of AM radio and plug it into the aux port if I ever get a Tesla. But there's no aux port either, and some have said they can't get a bluetooth device other than a cell phone to connect to a Tesla...

    Ok, so if we get a Tesla we can't get all our radio stations until they put in more cellphone towers so we can have some sort of radio app. But why?! I can get why there's no spare tire, no FWD option, no tow rating, etc. But I feel like they designed the radio on purpose just to put salt in my wounds. I'm already distrot that no smartphone manufacturer is putting radio in their smartphones*, and hence now have to walk around with yet another pocket bulge (pocket-sized radio). I already hate touchscreens with a passion and yet everything comes with a touchscreen anymore. I hate having to rely on the internet for everything. We've been hit with storms that have left us without power, internet and phonelines, including cellphones, for days, even up to a week. I also still use other equipment that uses a standard audio jack. Why does the world have to be bent on abandoning what works for me and replacing it with what I don't like, and then remove any practical means of sticking with my old ways and habits just to spite me?

    So if I want AM radio, or any other audio device, in a Tesla, I guess my only option would be to get an FM transmitter. I don't like the idea of adding more radio waves, be it FM or Bluetooth, when trying to tune in to AM in a car that's already producing a lot of electromagnetic noise. But I don't want to rule out ever owning a Tesla nor rule out abandoning things I like, like AM radio. But things like this make me sad.

    Please, someone tell me that Teslas actually do have at least an aux audio port on them!

    *In some countries there are smartphones with FM radio. But my provider does not offer any and is now apparently not accepting phones that don't meet their VoLTE specifications. So far I haven't been able to verify a single new smartphone with FM capability that will work with my provider. Maybe I should stick with a flip phone.
     
    #1 Isaac Zachary, Feb 17, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I thought I understood the lack of AM radio to be driven primarily by all the interference produced by the car itself, not by other intentions of abandoning it. It seems quite unlikely that you will do any better by bringing along your own AM device.

    The AM band seems to have picked up a lot more interference and garbage over my lifetime, both from external sources, and from its own programming choices. ;)

    Though it doesn't help that common consumer radios have also been cheapened, being made less able to reject out-of-band interference. Back in the previous century, I picked up one of these for local emergency information during power outages or events. But I hardly ever listen to AM anymore, except for frequent traffic information on one particular station. Unfortunately, that station has also 'cheapened' its service, often telling me about avoidable backups only after I'm through them, or trapped.

    https://radiojayallen.com/ge-superadios-evolution-of-a-classic/
     
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  3. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Yes and no. The AM radio interference by the car itself is a result of little wire/inverter/motor shielding and few, if any, RF chokes. Ham radio operators will often go through a car and add more shielding to all the wires as well as add RF chokes. It's more work, more cost, but possible, and just something Tesla and others don't want to do themselves. I installed a few RF chokes in the Avalon and plan on puting some more shielding on the battery and inverter and it does pretty well without them (if only the infotainment center weren't so glitch on the Avalon.) I also have an SW radio I plug into the aux on the Avalon that works pretty well.

    It's not the cutting out the AM feature so much as making it nearlly impossible to add it back in any way shape or form, even an ugly radio hanging out of an aux port or plugged into a Bluetooth transmitter, what really bothers me.

    And what if I want do listen with my car parked??? I can get a radio like you said, but won't be able to push it out over the car's speakers without some hacking.

    But I digress. An FM transmitter will still work. It's just a painful workaround, almost making it worth cutting a Tesla off from its speakers and bolting an AM/FM radio (maybe with a cassette tape player just because) to the dash and attaching the speakers to that.
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A handful of chokes and some shielding can do a lot in a gas car or a hybrid, but the strength of interference from a full BEV is on another level.
     
  5. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I disagree. Not only is it possible, there is also noise cancelation technology that could be used on an EV without a problem. And if purpose built, noise cancelation could be directly interfaced with the motor controls and could actively cancel any RF noise.

    There's post noise cancelation technology that uses a single mic that can cancel the noise of a jet taking off behind the person speaking.
     
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Any AM station I wanted (all 2 of them) also transmit an FM signal. I don’t know how typical that is, perhaps I got lucky.
    The shielding would add cost and lower range, for a function that is rapidly dying out in the market.

    If the lack of AM stations is a deal breaker for you, so be it. For many, there are other options, but it just may be that a Tesla isn’t for you.
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm fairly well versed in methods for acoustic and RF noise reduction. You aren't wrong about the possibilities.

    It just seems like a heavy lift, doing all that to support one mode of irritainment when all the others can be enabled much more cheaply.

    And @Zythryn made a good point, there's precious little on AM that isn't also simulcast on FM or IP streamed or podcasted later.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    do any bevs have am?
     
  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    While your situation is far from unique, it is also just not usual globally. One of the few places I ever go that actually has cell reception dropout on normal roads, is the US. I can go to the far Northern reaches in Canada from Whitehorse to Dawson and stream internet radio over 4G. I can go into the desert in Egypt and get signal. I can't remember if I have ever been without signal in Europe, even in the remote northern parts of Scandinavia or around Iceland's ring road. Cell reception globally, is everywhere. Except in the US. And the places that don't have cell reception are also the places with few people and generally also not Tesla buyers.

    If I was designing a car today, I wouldn't include an AM or FM radio. I stopped listening to FM radio in 2004ish with satellite radio. Since about 2008 I was internet radio and sat radio. From about 2012 onwards, internet radio 100%. I stream my radio stations (usually from the UK without ads) anywhere in the world with data. It doesn't need a stable connection 100% of the time, it just buffers 10s or 30s at a time so you're slightly behind live radio which is fine. If you are going to be offline, you can always download a previous show to your device before you travel. Is having 1 day old music any different than the current day's music minus the news bits? Even on flights, where I spend most of my time, I always have internet and I can listen to my station while working at 40k feet.

    I have many annoyances like this with modern product design. My do all the laptop manufacturers keep taking away my physical buttons below the trackpad? The stupid curved screens on phones and punchholes instead of a good ol bezel. Tons of them. But it is just older man yells at clouds because I realize I'm very much in the minority of people who care let alone want that design choice. I buy a limited range of products with the features I want until forced to adapt. Like my phone with it's curved screen now.

    If I had to guess, a small bandwidth limited starlink terminal on the roof will be standard issue in HW12 or whatever.
     
  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    My old Nissan Leaf, the fugly one, has AM radio.
     
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  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Now that I have a phone plan with service in Canada, I had intended to check while on the road there last week. But forgot to peek at the coverage icon along the roads, and a plan change had us turning around after skiing a few days at Revelstoke, instead of going farther inland as originally intended.

    Next time we drive from Banff to Jasper, or Jasper to Whistler, I'll have to check up closely on that.

    Ooh, not looking so good in numerous places right now:

    upload_2023-2-17_19-28-35.png

    I must add that the "white spaces" in the Pacific Northwest are larger than they appear above. This one below is more realistic:

    upload_2023-2-17_19-39-41.png
     
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  13. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    I'm surprised to learn that about Tesla! I, also, have a few local radio stations that I'll, occasionally, turn on to catch up on the local news or my favorite talk radio hosts.
    One thing I've been waiting to hear is Tesla starting to allow drivers to connect to their StarLink network. Using this, folks could surf the web, stream videos/movies, or even make a cell phone call without the need for a cell phone signal. (I know the Teslas get over-the-air software updates and wonder if they use the StarLink network for this, if it's available in that area.) I just researched this and, yes, it's going to be available in V2.0 of StarLink which starts to launch this year.
     
  14. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    The thing is
    • Tesla isn't the only one getting rid of AM radio.
    • AM radio isn't the only thing I'd miss. Maybe I'm just too nostalgic, but I see things like having a spare tire, clutch pedal and other such things as being more practical than the alternatives. (Of course my current car doesn't have a clutch pedal, which is why it's impossible to rock out of deep snow.)
    • I'm just not one to care for or trust a data conection of any sort. Yes I can carry along an AM/FM radio for emergencies, but how does that promote the use of AM radio to begin with? Last time our valley was hit by a disaster about 15,000 people were without phones and internet (and power) for three days, at 70 or more miles away from where there were any such services. I didn't hear of anyone having success with satelite conections either during the storm. Ditchin FM and AM radio may be inevitable, but I don't feel it's wise. At the time I had just swapped out my LG G3 with FM radio for my first phone without FM radio and I felt pretty stupid, especially when the only place for me to listen to radio was in the car and the authorities were telling everyone on radio to not go sit out in their cars that the storm was too dangerous.
    • How long has the internet been out and I still don't like using it for radio. What chances are there I'll ever get used to it? I kind of liked the Google Play Music app, and then they killed it. I tried some other third party stuff, but I didn't like any of them.
    • Everything that's Bluetooth never works for me, except my Surface pen and mouse. But audio, forget it. I got some Beats ear buds I can't for the life of me figure out how to use. I had Bluetooth going in the Avalon and then it glitched and won't let me connect via Bluetooth any more.
    • First cell phones get rid of FM radio, now cars get rid of AM and FM may be next. What else is next?
     
    #14 Isaac Zachary, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
  15. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Can you download the (free) Audacity app onto your phone? Depending on the market area, the AM station(s) might very well be offered on the app, or a competing app. Then just Bluetooth it into the audio system in the car.
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I've got some really bad news about the drive-in...
     
  17. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    #17 John321, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    First world problems :rolleyes:
     
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  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I love the made-up brand names on Amazon lately. Seen some great ones.

    But your link.... That one pretty much takes the cake.

    Portables make a good solution. I use a Sony walkman (yes, they still use that silly made-up name!) it's a solid state media player with a radio built in.
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Teslas have AM radio - up to model year 2016. It was no big deal to let go of AM radio for most. That's why a lot of cars stopped carrying it. For the minority that still enjoy it, many stations will rebroadcast digitally - & our 2017 did quite well at receiving those digitized frequencies at & below 1,690khz - no Toroid choke necessary.
    .