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2010 Prius - P0A80 - At Home Troubleshooting

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Naxlin, Mar 15, 2023.

  1. Naxlin

    Naxlin New Member

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    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Good day, I'm new to this form to figure things out on my friend's Prius.

    The code for her car is "P0A80 - Replace Hybrid Battery Pack" and she doesn't have the money for a full battery replacement, so I'm checking off what I can. Any suggestions for things that I'm missing would be great. Here's what I've done so far:

    I have tested the aux battery and it holds a charge well and has around 12v, so that one should be good.
    The air filter was super clean, but I cleaned it out the rest of the way anyway, and I'll be testing the battery air motor soon to make sure that functions strongly.
    The plastic air exhaust guide was showing signs of crimping down on itself, allowing the exhaust air to escape in the wrong area and potentially cycling back into the air intake. So I'm going to put some spacers in there. I bent the metal hybrid battery cover back to a flat shape (the part that sits on the air exhaust plastic).
    I've done poor man's readings on the hybrid battery with a volt reader.

    The volt reader values on each hybrid cell are below (Note: I've numbered the blocks from right to left when looking at the hybrid battery from the rear of the vehicle. I am not sure of the correct block numbers):
    • Block 1 - 16.34
    • Cell 1 - 8.17
    • Cell 2 - 8.17
    • Block 2 - 16.24
    • Cell 3 - 8.12
    • Cell 4 - 8.12
    • Block 3 - 16.22
    • Cell 5 - 8.07
    • Cell 6 - 8.15
    • Block 4 - 16.17
    • Cell 7 - 8.06
    • Cell 8 - 8.11
    • Block 5 - 16.01
    • Cell 9 - 7.99
    • Cell 10 - 8.02
    • Block 6 - 16.03
    • Cell 11 - 8.00
    • Cell 12 - 8.03
    • Block 7 - 16.00
    • Cell 13 - 8.05
    • Cell 14 - 7.95
    • Block 8 - 15.85
    • Cell 15 - 7.88
    • Cell 16 - 7.97
    • Block 9 - 16.09
    • Cell 17 - 8.01
    • Cell 18 - 8.08
    • Block 10 - 16.27
    • Cell 19 - 8.16
    • Cell 20 - 8.11
    • Block 11 - 16.36
    • Cell 21 - 8.15
    • Cell 22 - 8.21
    • Block 12 - 16.30
    • Cell 23 - 8.09
    • Cell 24 - 8.21
    • Block 13 - 16.26
    • Cell 25 - 8.17
    • Cell 26 - 8.09
    • Block 14 - 16.35
    • Cell 27 - 8.17
    • Cell 28 - 8.18

    That puts the cells at a .33 variance from lowest voltage to highest voltage and block 8 as the potential culprit for the reading at the low of 15.85.

    But this also brings up a question: the manual says 7.2 should be the value on the cells, so I'm wondering if anything around 8 is too high and therefore indicating that the whole battery is just bad and will need replaced. Anyone know if these readings are fine or not? Or have any suggestions/knowledge about the variances?

    I'm planning on replacing the Bus Bars and cleaning the connections, cause the bars are super corroded and the connections quite messy. Once I have this clean up done I'll get more volt readings.

    I'm considering getting a Bluetooth OBD2 code reader to get more readings, just doing what I can with what I have first to see what insights are available. And I know the Dr Prius app is suggested as an option for getting the values. What are people's suggestions on readers and/or apps to use for Prius diagnostics?
     
  2. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

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    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Let's start by correcting some nomenclature. What you are calling a cell is actually a module. Two modules make one block. There are 6 cells inside each module, and 28 modules (14 blocks) make up the battery pack. Each cell is 1.2v nominal x 6 cells/module = 7.2v nominal for each module. The voltage of each module increases as the battery pack is charged, and it decreases as the battery pack is discharged. The static voltages that you listed above for each module are in the correct range. I think the modules will normally be from 8.2v to 7.1 volts.

    The car's battery ECU monitors each block in the battery pack. The highest block is 16.36v, and the lowest is 15.85v. So the ECU sees a 0.51v difference. To me, it looks like the battery pack is not "balanced". It is normal that the modules near the middle of the pack (blocks 6,7,8) are the first to go bad because these modules get the hottest during usage. Normally, when a module goes "bad," one cell inside of the module will go bad, and the module voltage will be 1.2v lower than the other modules. I do not see that in your case.

    The static voltage reading of each module does not show you the true health of the battery pack. You need to watch the voltage readings while you drive the car. The battery pack will be charged when you are braking, and it will discharge when you are accelerating. The voltage difference between the highest and lowest block will tell you the health of the battery pack. The Dr Prius app is a very good thing to use to monitor the voltage difference while you drive. Go to the Dr Prius website for more information and the recommended Bluetooth OBD2 adapter to buy. I use the Carista adapter with an Android phone and the Dr Pruis and Hybrid Assistant apps and a few other apps.

    If you remove the bus bars to clean them, you need to torque each nut to 48 inch-pounds during assembly. Most people do not have a 1/4" size inch-pound torque wrench, so you would need to buy one. Doing this is very important.

    The first thing that I would do is buy an OBD2 adapter to use with the Dr Prius app. Monitor the block voltage difference while you drive the car. If you notice one or two blocks that have high voltage during charging or low voltage during discharging, you might want to replace those modules. The other thing that might help is to recondition the battery pack by using a system like the Prolong charger and discharger. I purchased this system used on eBAY 1-1/2 years ago and have used it three times. It is a very expensive system which most people do not want to spend the money for. There is a thread on this forum that tells you how to build your own grid charger for $100.

    Can you please tell us the mileage on the car.
     
    #2 Brian1954, Mar 16, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
    CR94, Naxlin and royrose like this.
  3. Naxlin

    Naxlin New Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks for correcting my terminology, module does make more sense than cell.
    Good to hear that they are within normal static ranges, I'll certainly look into getting an OBD2 reader to do some active testing.

    What resources are available for doing the balancing?
    And I've heard that you want to try and match replacement cells/modules with close to the same condition as others in the group, so where might I find those if we end up needing to replace some?

    I'll definitely get a torque wrench to match the 48 inch-pounds when doing the Bus Bars, thanks for letting me know about that!

    Could you share more info on the reconditioning process and the tool you mentioned?

    The milage on the car is between 140k and 150k.

    Thanks for the information, it's all very helpful!
     
  4. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    What about the “battery air motor” nomenclature ?
     
  5. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    The balancing and reconditioning of the battery pack is done using a grid charger and dis-charger. See the website liked below for more information: Battery Reconditioning Overview | Hybrid Automotive

    Also the link to make your own grid charger for under $100: Build Hybrid Battery Maintenance Gear For Under $100 | PriusChat

    You could also recondition the individual modules using an inexpensive hobby charger. This method takes a long time to complete and a steep learning curve. Do your own search to learn more. This is something that I have not attempted myself.

    That is correct. The replacement modules that you purchase ideally should have about the same capacity as the existing "good" modules in your battery pack.

    There are many, many threads on this forum which discuss reconditioning of the battery pack or modules. You could spend many days searching and reading them if you choose to do so.

    You did not give a compete history of the 2010 Prius that you are working on. Hopefully your battery pack is the original one the car was manufactured with and not a replacement. Please take a look at this complete thread: Driving with a degraded hybrid battery (P0A80/P3017 code). | PriusChat
    Look at post #7 and the link to the hybrid battery date codes.
    Look at the first four digits of the serial numbers printed on the modules in your battery pack. Hopefully they are identical to each other, and the date code is for the year 2009 or 2010.

    I hope this is helpful to you. I only have a small amount of time that I can devote to this thread, because I need to get ready for my vacation. Traveling south to warmer weather for a few weeks.
     
  6. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

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    III
    I am confused. Where did I write "battery air motor", I can not find it.

    Nomenclature was definitely not the best word to use. Terminology is a much better word .

    Edit: I now see in post #1 what you are talking about. I understood what he was talking about. I was more concerned with correcting the terminology being used for the components in the HV battery.
     
    #6 Brian1954, Mar 17, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
  7. Naxlin

    Naxlin New Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Some updates on the readings after getting an OBD2 reader and using the Dr Prius app:
    123_1(2).jpeg 123_1.jpeg 123_1(6).jpeg 123_1(7).jpeg 123_1(1).jpeg 123_1(4).jpeg 123_1(3).jpeg 123_1(5).jpeg 123_1(8).jpeg

    Some of the observations that I had while looking at these voltages is that every module seemed to fluctuate and respond to the charging and discharging and no particular module 'remained' the lowest out of all the modules. Blocks 11 and 12 were the lowest at one point, while 8 was the lowest at another point, so I'm wondering if I could just do a rebalance to bring them to about the same level and if that would fix things.

    Any advice, insights, or questions about this latest information would be appreciated :)
     
  8. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Edit: what I wrote below is assuming that the car has the original HV battery pack. If the original battery pack was replaced with a reconditioned battery pack, then I would recommend a new OEM replacement if it is not covered by a warranty.

    I do not have a lot of experience with the HV battery, but to me, it looks like your battery pack is a good candidate for reconditioning. You can start by using a grid charger and do a charging cycle (takes about 24 hours) to balance the "top end" of the battery pack. This maybe all that is needed, but a complete reconditioning ( 4 charge cycles and 3 discharge cycles) would be better, so that you can regain some capacity of the battery pack.

    Do a search to see if there are any hybrid auto service centers in your area. They maybe have the equipment to do the HV battery reconditioning for you.

    Did you check the serial numbers (date codes) on the modules to see if the battery pack is the original one for the 2010 Prius?
     
    #8 Brian1954, Apr 5, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023