1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Air Bleed Failed - Brake Actuator Replacement - Wrong miniVCI?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Penduder, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. Penduder

    Penduder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2023
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    I
    After getting a C1391 code and diagnosing the brake actuator as having an internal pressure leak, I swapped the actuator with a new one. To be clear, since these are often confused with the brake accumulators, I replaced the brake thingy that attaches to the brake pedal and contains the ECU and stroke simulator.

    I got a miniVCI with 1.4.8 firmware and techstream 16.Xxxxxx, and when going through the brake bleeding procedure I got an error once I got to the stroke simulator bleeding process. I kept getting a pop-up error "Air Bleed Failed" with some boilerplate about initial conditions, etc. By having my buddy pump the brakes while I opened the stroke simulator bleed valve and THEN clicking "Next" to start the stroke simulator bleed page, I got the pop-up to not appear. On the page after that, the (second) "bleed front LH brake" page, the error reappeared.

    I've done extensive research (with few results) on these issues, and it seems the most likely issue is that I don't have a K Line connection between techstream and the vehicle. After more research, it seems that the miniVCI 1.4.8 doesn't support the K Line, but the 2.X.X does. Again, I'm not even sure if this is the issue, but even if it is I can't seem to find one for sale online (AliExpress, ebay, Amazon). I tried flashing the 2.X.X firmware to the cable but that didn't solve the K Line connection, which was an expected result based on my research.

    At this point, I'm strongly considering driving very carefully (possibly late at night) to the dealership two miles away and having them bleed it. I'm expecting $200-250 for that procedure. But I'd like to avoid that if I can do it in my garage. I have access to the Chilton manual through my library but that didn't help. Should I subscribe to TIS for two days/is there something I'm missing that might be in there? I know some relays should be removed in Gen 2's but not for Gen 3...

    Thoughts? Ideas?
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    That's right with the Gen 3 you are stuck with tech stream and the proper cable to make any bleeding happen I do believe I have it literally got out and tried drip bleeding with nothing on starting at the back had to take a day probably if it will even probably attempt it because this car is completely electronic in that way and I don't even know if you've replaced the right part in the gen 3 I have to literally look through all the business I do know that accumulators and a valve will stick in the accumulator will leak down it's common in the Gen 3 these two pieces are separated and many times both pieces get replaced at quite a decent cost where the Gen 2 because of the good design team put the accumulator and the pump on the same rack The master cylinder that's connected to your pedal is another whole part sitting 10 in or better away and it doesn't have the problems the Gen 3's have hence that's why I drive the Gen 2 put the women in the threes. Because you need all this specialized equipment just to make the car work again buying text stream for 2 days will not help you if you don't have a VCI cable that will speak to the vehicle in the way that you need to it's like speaking Spanish to a person from Saudi Arabia basically.
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,069
    14,974
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I don't have much expertise to offer about comparative Mini-VCI weirdness. I've only ever had one, and I kind of know what its weirdnesses are, and for those things I'll often use the Openport instead. But I do understand that the Mini VCI ecosystem and quality control situation are uniquely messy, so that different Mini VCIs can have whole different weirdnesses.

    But just to change the subject a little, how's the charge on your 12 volt battery? The bleed procedure can take a while, and consumes some power (especially in the late part where it cycles the actuator and pump), and the bleed procedure can conk out before completing if the power gets too low.
     
    Tombukt2 likes this.
  4. Penduder

    Penduder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2023
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Actually, a couple weeks after I parked the car due to the C1391 I went to check the odometer for unrelated reasons and found the aftermarket, out of warranty 12V sitting at 2.5V (no lights on in the car, etc...just died). So I got an OEM battery and it's been fine. After trying unsuccessfully to get the bleeding procedure to fully complete, the 12V was at 11.5V. I idled the car for half an hour and that got it back up to 13.1V. "Air bleeding failed" still showed up after it was charged to 13.1V. I haven't gotten to the actuator/pump cycling because the bleeding fails before that point.

    So far, I've bled all four wheels and the stroke simulator once.

    As for the miniVCI, I don't know much about all the different options (openport, etc). I just thought it's a cable that connects the OBDII to the computer, so I find it tricky to determine what cable name/standard I need to do what I want to do. I'm not even sure if the miniVCI is the issue, I just know that when I do the cable check utility it says the K and L lines are NG (not good?). L line is for ECU reprogramming but I'm not sure what K is for.
     
    Tombukt2 likes this.
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    And so all the warning lights are still on the dash car won't start whatever? If you clear the codes they come right back and turn the lights on and the pedal feels soft squishy or not normal? Just wondering
     
  6. Penduder

    Penduder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2023
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    I
    I haven't put the wheels back on yet so I don't know I'd get codes but I'm assuming if I didn't complete the air bleed sequence then I still have air in there.

    I now believe I've completed the bleeding:

    I was able to use Tech stream 12.20.024 in a Windows XP VirtualBox. I followed the instructions in "Toyota Techstream for ALL Windows | How to Install and get it WORKING Everytime | Landcruiser 200" YouTube video by Jafffa Adventures. It lost connection many times but I was able to skip through the wheel bleed and stroke simulator bleed steps that I'd already completed yesterday. I continued in the process at the second bleeds for the front wheels and then it performed the Actuator Air Bleeding Pattern (lots of beeps, whirrs, and pressure release sounds).

    Note: if you get errors prior to getting to this point, you can perform just this step in the "Active Test" menu after you're in the ABS/VSC/TRAC ECU. After that bleed pattern, it performs six sequential Accumulator Zero Down procedures, which can also be performed in the "Active Test" menu. My connection was lost when going through the bleeding tool after three zero downs, so I did three more manually through the "Active Test" menu. From what I've read on other posts here, it seems like that's the last step of the bleed procedure. I don't know if it is (since I didn't technically get to the end) but if anyone can confirm or deny that would be very helpful.

    Even after using the VirtualBox with Windows XP, I still was getting "NG" errors in the DLC3 Cable Check test for the K and L lines, so I can confirm that this process is doable with a miniVCI on 1.4.1 firmware. After getting multiple "lost connection" errors, I switched the VirtualBox from USB 1.0 to USB 2.0, and I had already increased the Base Memory to 8192MB and Execution Cap to 98%. This didn't eliminate my issue but it might have made it better - not sure.

    Also, the actuator I bought was from Olathe Toyota for about $551.95 plus tax/shipping, P/N 47050-47140. The FedEx truck it was on in Wyoming crashed and Olathe sent me a new one free of charge...and the second one arrived a day after the original one did (two weeks late). So I sent one back to them. Between the holidays, the lost shipment, and the bleeding issues, it's been a month and a half since I've been able to drive my car! Buying gas for my partner's CR-V sure reminds me why we always drive the Prius instead :)

    Now it's time to put the wheels back on. Hopefully my brake accumulator has many more years on it...
     
  7. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    I would have kept the second replacement until they asked for it back which they probably wouldn't holy Jesus. I would think even with the wheels off of everything is connected you should be able to sit in the car and do whatever you want your wheels aren't touching the ground you're obviously up on jack stands pretty uneventful The motor might start and you know whatever and I wouldn't think much of it I was just curious if you would have no codes and if you're pedal feels normal that's all if my car was on jack stands and brake lines are connected and pads are in place and rotors are on shouldn't be a problem I'm not going to gun the engine and make the front wheels which are not on or rotors go flying around and around I'd actually be stepping on the brakes mostly to see if my pedal feels like it's supposed to and if my lights are out just because I'd want to see that.
     
  8. Penduder

    Penduder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2023
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Yeah the brake pedal felt normal when I was on the jack stands and the codes didn't come back. Currently it has no codes and I think it's good to go.
     
    Tombukt2 likes this.
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,069
    14,974
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I always have kind of suspected that the "air bleeding utility" was just invoking those different active tests in some order, but I have never had the gumption to try to figure out exactly which ones in what order.
     
  10. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Well there you go I was meaning before you got back to it with this additional stuff when five paragraphs back or whatever but yeah that's great man You're good to go It looks like that's really good.
     
  11. Matt98svt

    Matt98svt Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2021
    54
    11
    0
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Four
    I had the exact same problem with techstream after replacing the same brake parts recently on my 2013 V. It would get to the stroke simulator part and would make a click noise then give the same error code and I would start over. I purchased my cable from amazon and it too came with techstream version 16.xx. In the end I gave up on techstream and used a Thinkdiag + obdII tool to do the bleeding but will have to play with techstream a bit more now that I know you can manually go to each step
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,470
    38,103
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Mar 24, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
    Matt98svt likes this.
  13. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Anybody have the updated actuator part number for gen3 . I thought there was an update to this part and late 11 or 2012 or something for the generation 3 2Z Prius??
     
    Tbkilb01 likes this.
  14. Tbkilb01

    Tbkilb01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    215
    187
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I just bled mine using an autel
    Went smoothly... gotta go all way thru to the linear offset part .. then back to front wheels again...open bleeder valves enough to get a good flow ... kinda spongy pedal till the end... BC6BC45C-577E-46AE-B52E-8DBDEDAB752F.png
     
  15. Tbkilb01

    Tbkilb01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    215
    187
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I noticed the part numbers were different on the 2010 donor part compared to 2011 part
    F05F4374-4DF6-4EAF-8A49-8BD338911B5A.jpeg
    Leaking 2011 accumulator part number was
    47210-24310

    EE593E1B-8A18-4873-AEAF-4EFEDACFBBC1.jpeg

    Older working 2010 donor had
    number 47210-47140
     
    #15 Tbkilb01, Mar 25, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,069
    14,974
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Sometimes we don't emphasize enough that Toyota parts often have numbers that appear on the physical part, and have the same nnnnn-nnnnn form as a part number, but are not the part number.
     
    Tbkilb01 likes this.
  17. Tbkilb01

    Tbkilb01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    215
    187
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Yea gotta do cross reference and research on just about everything..anymore
     
  18. Maxli

    Maxli New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2023
    2
    0
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Three

    I got the exact same issue, every time just failed at the stroke simulator step, can’t go further.
    Can you please advise what brand and model scanner can finish it?
     
  19. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,791
    1,348
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Yeah for folks that don't do car work regularly all the numbers on things can be quite discerning. That's why I usually look up if I need to the Toyota part number to make sure there aren't any updates or there are updates etc and then I'm familiar with the part series part numbering and then I know what I'm looking for on the physical part not all those other numbers.