Featured From Prius to bZ4X

Radiant heat is really COOL it warms the body not the space

 

I am curious how many you feel is adequate for your needs.
Our state is currently building out quite a few, but I am not sure what you mean by “many”.

 

Just trying to understand your position.
So you are looking at this as ‘general populace’ issue and not one that impacts you personally.

And yes, as the state builds them out, it will take time to perform they work.
However, there are quite a few already and these will just add to it. As of today, PlugShare shows about 25 DC fast charging stations in the metro region. 5 of those are Tesla only stations.

For my individual needs, that is about 24 more than I need. For the general societal needs, I’m unsure.

So, back to the question, what do you mean by ‘many’?

 

So lets assume that 10% of the cars are electric in 5 years.

How many gas stations in my town of 20k cars. I stopped counting at 30 but there may be more. How many pumps per station? 16? Occupied for 5 minutes per average fillup? So 30x16x5 minutes of fillups. 2400 minutes.

Average vehicle gets 30 MPG on a 15 gallon tank. And the EVs want to charge at 225 about half that range. So roughly twice the number of charges compared to fill ups.

But only 5% of the EVs need public charging and 25 minutes per charge. I need 2000x10%x5%x2=20 so I need 20 charging stations. No how many do I really need because not everyone will be charging all at the same time? But it is the same at the gas pump.

But it really makes little difference to the gas user since the closest one is close. The main drag through town must have 20 of these gas stations. And Sheetz is building a big one not 200 yards from another brand and 500 yards from still another one. Not so with so few charging stations even in my guestimate.

But 2 chargers per location and 10 locations would surely be so much better than the one with 2 cords and low speed but free charging subsidized by the downtown merchants but always used by the same two cars, one a local merchant.

So by enough I scientifically compute that there should be enough with visibility enough assuming that the goal is to make people comfortable with buying EVs. And my number plucked from the air and SWAGed says 10 places with 2 each no matter what the calculations show..

And as fewer people are able to afford houses with garages and live in town houses or apartments, and I don't see anything in the city or county planning rules that require chargers...the numbers will get bigger over time. When is the last time you saw a 240 volt 40 amp circuit in the front of a town house where the owner could park? But I see more EVs every day. 95% of the T brand.

 

Most people charge at home...

That said, I kind of agree. And I'm glad to see that auto companies are partnering to roll out chargers. VW/Audi is obviously in the penalty box that is rolling out EA, but we can't discount the work they've done. GM is rolling out FLO chargers in downtown urban areas. Mercedes is working with Chargepoint. Ford is requiring dealers to install publicly available DCFCs.

What's Toyota done, other than whine and roll out a crap BEV?

 

How cold and snowy of winters do you get there in Minnesota? I'm still waiting for the snow to melt off the lawn here in Colorado. I had a terrible experience with the Nissan Leaf (2013 with heat pump) in the winter here as range could drop to half just from the cold temps at -15 °F and below) even without trudging through any snow whatsoever.

 

Did I say the number of chargers will be enough for everyone? No, I don’t believe so.
Once again John, what do you mean by “Many”. You are getting very good at avoiding that question.
Why would a city need a minimum of “1 large charging station” and what size is that.

A distribution across the metro area would seem more important than a single “large” one.
Is 8 large? 12, 20?
Why talk about the overall population when many don’t have cars.
The 25 right now are serving a population of a perhaps a few thousand, maybe 10,000, certainly not 3.5 million.

Or do you expect there to be zero growth in charging stations?

 

What does that even mean? How is Toyota setting the stage with ONE subpar model, while VW is rolling out multiple models? GM is also rolling out several models as well...

Let me rephrase... or reframe the question? How is Toyota setting the stage? Can you avoid your jargon salad answers and provide some sort of actual outsider perspective on Toyota?

 

So here's the thing with pilot programs. They need to work out the issues and kinks, and then they take what's learned and apply it to future projects. Pilot programs often hit delays.

 

I was aware of that, I am glad you are.
So why did you assume that we would only have 25 fast-charging stations when every single person, and their children, were driving EVs?

You really don’t like using hard numbers. But if you did I would think your points would be much clearer.

 

I see. I'd be interested in what anyone in a BEV or PHEV has gone through in the very cold and snowy. There have been times the temp has sat around -40°F for an entire week here, not to mention the several days of -20°F or -30°F. Once I went through -52°F. I've also just the left the tire chains on the car for several, daily-driven days as there was no point in taking them off. I suppose a lot of that is why I average only 35mpg in the Avalon yearly and not 40mpg or more. But having to have the Leaf towed after 30 miles on only a -15°F sunny day with clear roads didn't help my attitude towards getting another EV anytime soon. Yet I still would like an EV some day.

 

Any EV (BEV or PHEV alike) suffers from range loss in the cold. About 30% loss of the range is normal for any relatively new EVs. My Prius Prime lost 50% EV range on the coldest day of winter (18 miles) compared to the warm months' best EV range (36 miles). If the traction battery is older, then the loss is even larger. For me to switch to a pure BEV, I will always have to account for the 50% range reduction in the winter worst-case scenario. That's why, right now, a BEV including Tesla will not be a viable option for an only car that requires occasional long trips in winter.

I don't know where in Colorado, you live, but it's hard to believe you actually had sustained -40F temp for an entire week. Do you have an official record of the temperature from that period? Here is the average temp of Fraser, CO which is claimed to be the coldest city in the state. The low and high temp averages during the coldest months are warmer than in Northern Maine where I live.