Drum Roll Please - The Highest 1st Quarter Selling Electrified Vehicle was NOT the RAV4 Hybrid

Wow, I didn't know FWD Sienna and AWD Sienna had that much difference. Back in 2005, I was not paying any attention to the fuel efficiency. I got Sienna AWD simply because that was the only mini-van on the market that came with AWD. To be honest, I did not know if I really needed AWD or not, but back then we just moved to Great North where the average snowfall doubled to over 100 inches per season. We always had a minivan in our household before Sienna. 2 Nissan Quest and 1 Dodge Grand Caravan to be specific. We managed to haul our family (2 adults and 4 kids and a dog and a cat) in the minivan on many long trips including an annual trip from East Coast to Mid West (close to 1,000 miles each way). No towing, but did a lot of top-of-the-roof carriers, including a full-size canoe.

The fact that the new 2023 Sienna AWD and Highlander AWD both are rated ~35mpg and offer 600 miles range is just amazing if that number really holds in real-life. I am disappointed in our 2022 Escape PHEV in that it does not hold 40mpg on the highway going 70mph, and at that speed, the range from a full tank and full charge is reduced to ~420miles, quite a bit shorter than EPA-rated 520miles.

 

The average speed of the EPA highway test is 48.3mph. Unless it is an aerodynamically slippery car, expect less than highway rating cruising on a freeway.
Gerdes got 32.7mpg with an Escape hybrid at 70mph.
https://www.cleanmpg.com//community/index.php?threads/49683/page-18#post-437072

 

I wonder which "highway" EPA has in its mind? The average 48.3mph is more like our regular road. Our interstate has a Minimum Speed limit of 45mph.

Your linked page shows interesting data points. Certainly, I believe 32.7mpg with an Escape hybrid at 70mph in real life. On my last trip on the 2022 Escape PHEV, I got just about 34mpg from the dash on a segment of the interstate with a sustained 72mph speed. But this was with 4 adults with cargo in the car estimated at ~600 lbs in excess of a single driver weight. At this speed, the car does not use EV traction as gauged by the energy monitor or both App and Dash-based trip info on the Electric mileage.

Moreover, it is interesting that with the 2020 PP, he shows 48.5mph at 70mph. I have done experiments on my 2021 PP and got similar results. Gen4 PP has an apparent limit on EV traction power at above 72mph. If the speed is sustained at 72mph or above the car will not use EV traction (EV ratio will be 0%) unless the route has a very steep and long downhill section.

 

I've heard it's based on driving styles from the 1950's. The Clean Air Act passed in 1970. At best, the cycles were developed based off car use in the late 1960's. Then there were likely limitations imposed by the testing equipment of the time. These tests weren't developed for fuel economy testing, but emissions. Road testing those was only possible in the past decade.

Highway for the EPA highway test is the old US highway system that existed before the Interstates. Speed limits were 55mph at most, and there were lights at times. What people think of as highway today is far different; I call it freeway.

 

Yep, that explains why many drivers today can't beat the EPA-rated mpg on most cars. I was able to beat the EPA-rated mpg on most of my hybrid cars including PPs simply because I did not drive it on the interstate that much, and we have almost no EPA definition of "city" drive stop-and-go traffics.

 

I believe the person whom you heard this from was misinformed. The EPA ratings were updated in 1985 and 2008.

While not exact, Edmunds has found vehicles getting within about 2mpg.

Here's Why Real-World MPG Doesn't Match EPA Ratings | Edmunds.

 

The city isn't really what people picture as city these days, with higher congestion.

The WLTP is the newest test, and its test cycles are likely closer to how people are actually driving. There are four test cycles; low, medium, high, and extra high. The middle two are analogous to the EPA city and highway. Then there is a freeway one with extra high, and a true stop and go, NYC traffic one with low. The window sticker numbers in the US are closer to what people can get, because the EPA has gotten good at adjusting them for US drives. Lots of Interstate trips will throw that off, but most people are driving within the city and highway test conditions.

The EPA updated the rules, pretesting procedures, and adjustment factors at those times for the window sticker adjustment. Also did so around 2016. They even introduced new test cycles for the adjustment. The actual test cycle for highway and city that is driven on the dynamometer hasn't changed.

The raw, unadjusted results from those tests are used for emissions and CAFE. Unlike what can be posted up for marketing, changes there would be a major undertaking, and likely couldn't be done without Congressional approval.

 

We now have the 2020 RAV4HV ,
we probably would have bought the Prius v but it was "not selling well" which prob means they did not want to sell them.

Amazing list, Sienna/Venza not listed as Hybrids, some may not realize those are also Hybrids.

In theory I'd love a used Sienna Hybrid but the 2nd row seats are permanent and I prob need seats down to fit in a 10-ft kayak. I currently do that with a '09 VW Routan which has the same seat layout as Pacifica Hybrid.

Some guy on YouTube shows how to remove Sienna mid row seats, but it has to do with wiring for the heated seats etc (not something quick except for experts).

I live in an affluent area but we tax the living bejesus out of cars each year, so I do not think we see too many HiHy's around here compared to an equivalent region without such high annual car taxes.

 

Toyota continued selling it in Canada and elsewhere after cancelling it in the US. That elsewhere extended to 2021. The truth for the US is probably what they say. Wagons had fallen out of favor here before it was even released.

That might be marketing's hope.

 

Yet another vehicle I kind of like.

Was I born in the wrong era or the wrong country?

Consumerism is a democrocy. Whatever sells the best wins the vote, while the minority has to accept whatever that vote ends up being.

 

Sort of, but not that clear cut.
Consumerism is indeed a democracy. The Ford F-150 sells the best, yet lots of other options are out there. The minority may have fewer choices, but they still have choices.

For example, Company A doesn’t offer Widget X, and there exists demand for that product.
Company B decides to build Widget X if they can make a profit at it.

Yes, that minority needs to be big enough to allow a company to make money selling the widget.
There are a lot of different types of motorized vehicles available. They just may require a change of teh dealer you are comfortable with, or the company, or the form factor, etc..

The people that wanted a Prius were in the minority, yet that minority was enough for Toyota to make a very successful business division for.
The people that wanted Electric cars are still in a minority, but that minority is growing rapidly and is starting to surpass some gas car models in numbers.

Consumer trends dictate a lot. If people refuse to buy from companies that don’t offer minivans, more minivans will start being made.
If people stick with Company A because of other factors, even though they don’t make a minivan, then Company A will figure people don’t care about the lack of Minivans.

 

I'm not loyal to any company, although I have some opinions (observations) that may push me more towards one than the other.

I think the problem with me is I'm also too frugal. I've never bought a new car so neither Company A nor Company B care what I like because people like me have never bought from them.

Speaking of frugality, there's also the willing-to-pay price point even on new. I feel I need a minivan and am the point I could probably buy a new car. But +$36,000 for a Sienna seems a bit more than I can bite off. Maybe a Chrysler Voyager for nearly $10,000 less would be feasible. But if for some reason that doesn't see like a good option (lack of safety features) then I'd go for a Station Wagon. And the only affordable Station Wagon that I know of is the Subaru Outback. I don't really need the AWD, but at least it's kind of close in price to the Voyager, and it has a lot of things I would want like a spare tire and a tow rating. Of course fuel mileage ain't great in an Outback and I'd like an EV so maybe it's time for me to give up my prejudice against CUV's and look forward to the Chevy Equinox EV for around $30,000. But now I feel like society is trying to convince me to buy the type of vehicle I don't want, an SUV or CUV, so I might as well as get a Toyota Camry or Honda Civic (for the spare tire) and call it a day although the price point of the Chevy Malibu seems a lot more reasonable so I'd have to get a spare tire for it.

 

Whichever car company sells a 5 adult passenger BEV for $30K will take the title and make a lot of money. Tesla is close but the M3 is still 17K off.

 

What about the Nissan Leaf? I thought mine was quite roomy in the back seat, plenty of room for 5 adults total.

There are a lot of things I miss about that car.

 

Ah Yes true. I forgot to add 265 miles of range, liquid cooled and the ability to be fast charged more than 4 times in a row on a long trip....LOL... The Bolt EUV is very close to that goal....Equinox has my interest.....as well.

 

Still not there, but the Tesla base Model 3 is $40k, not $47k.
The Bolt meets your statement above now.

 

Right! I guess in order to be an EV it has to be a vehicle. If it doesn't get you from point A to point B then it doesn't count. That's the only thing I didn't like about my Leaf. Other than that it was a wonderful yard ornament.

The Bolt is going out of production.

As far as the Equinox goes, the $30,000 price tag is only an estimate. It could be closer to $40,000 when all said and done. Or it could be $25,000. We don't know yet.

 

There is the advertised price and there is actual final cost after packages/options, dealer required add-ons, dealer fees, distributor add-ons, distributor required fees, dealer price adjustments, taxes, tags, trade-in losses, insurance cost increases...there must be more.

From that you can deduct some maintenance expenses and normal upkeep for the first few years.

 

Yes it is, but it is available now.
And since the Bolt EUV (which is also going out of production) was mentioned, I thought I should mention the Bolt.

 

That's what baffled us when we looked at Sienna in 2018. We got the plug-in Pacifica in stead for $48k .... video infotainment for the grandkids, AC cooled / ventilated leather seats - great ride, all options + 33 ev miles - everything except $1,500 sunroof. Plus the so cal rebate cash & fed tax credit.
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