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broke down with a P3190

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Eddie25, May 5, 2023.

  1. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    That's all normal.
     
  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Since no one asked how old is the 12v battery then I won’t
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Normal ... and that 14.2 to 14.5 is the DC/DC converter output voltage, not the battery voltage, and the fuel pump is running on that, not battery voltage, when the engine is trying to start. (The fuel pump probably can run just fine, right down to 10 volts or so, just 'cause I'm pretty sure they're using a pump they could also use in gassers where it would have to run while the 12 volt battery cranked the engine. But in a Prius it's not ever likely to see any voltage that low.)

    So I don't think a "battery too low to run fuel pump" hypothesis gets much traction.
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If you only put 1 gallon of gas in your car, fill a gas can and bring it with you. Try to drive 50 miles, if you run out again before 50, then you know the gas meter is probably wrong.
     
  5. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    Gotcha, thanks. So basically if it's in READY and cranking but not starting it's probably not gonna be because of the AUX battery? It also feels like AUX battery would be on the list for P3190, or we'd at least have more cases of it causing one. I guess my focus shouldn't be battery at this point.

    Should be a nice tense next couple of weeks, lol.

    Does anyone have the fuel pump service data? I don't even know where it is, it's under the back seat right? I'm not currently focusing on that too hard either, but I would still love to have that info.


    Great point. I should go fill up next thing. Only reason I'm confident it's not that is that adding the gas had no correlation to it starting, and also I reset my mileage every time I get gas out of habit and it's spot on where it should be for 1/4 tank-ish.
     
  6. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Chapman is right and you are not qualified to make this diagnosis since you do not know the basics of how to diagnose which of the gas engine systems is it fault. You will run the traction battery down to the point that you can no longer attempt to start this car and you'll have to charge the battery separately in order to attempt this again. Although I can give you the most common cause I have found for this problem It is likely not going to help you because you do not know all the diagnostic approaches and I cannot teach them here. Do yourself a favor and hand this car over to somebody highly qualified to do the repair for you.

    Had to fix another shops blender on a Lexus CT 200h. Clearwater hybrids put in a used fuel pump and it didn't fix the problem. Didn't do proper diagnostics and they used fuel pump with seized just like the first fuel pump. I have to question if they even replace the fuel pump with a used one as this is what was relayed to me and the accuracy and her information cannot be trusted because it's secondhand and because of the person relaying it. They could have pulled out their fuel pump that they put in or they could have put in another bad one or they could have never replaced it. Any combination exists. Since the OEM fuel pump comes with the level indicator assembly and that whole assembly is around $800 at the dealer it's also possible that the car owner declined repair and didn't tell me the truth and just blames the servicing shop for failure to repair. In any case the fuel pump was seized in place. But because they tried to start the car so many times they ran the battery down to nothing and I wound up replacing the battery pack as well. So what started out as an $800 fuel pump plus labor turned into several thousand dollars for a fuel pump the labor the leaking gasket because they destroyed the fuel pump tank gasket a replacement hybrid battery and the reassembly of the entire interior of the car which they never needed to take apart.

    Manually manipulating the throttle vane oftentimes results in the need to recalibrate. You may have destroyed this part and MAY now need to REPLACE.

    I've even gotten that code when I worked on a Prius v and it had a bad inverter converter. I take it you don't have a dealer computer. Abort this job. You're making matters worse.
     
    #26 douglasjre, May 7, 2023
    Last edited: May 7, 2023
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    already happened ... OP has some ability to put charge back in the battery (post #10).

    Doesn't seem to be doing too bad a job ... I've only cautioned about focusing too early on specific possible causes, before testing has led there.
     
  8. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    Well it didn't start this morning. The battery was 12.5 before doing anything. After cranking but not starting and throwing the P3190, it was sitting at 14.5 with the car still on. It still wouldn't start with a charger on the AUX bat, but the AUX is taking a lot of amps from the charger at the moment. I'm not gonna do anything except charge the AUX again and if it starts right up then I'll focus on that for a second. If not, I'll charge the HV battery again and start testing engine stuff starting at fuel pressure.



    Thanks, Ill take that into consideration.

    Was the car with the bad fuel pump cranking but not starting?

    That's interesting about the inverter/converter, that makes me feel more like an AUX bat could cause something like this.




    I mentioned it in one of my posts, but it was probably buried, it's 4 years old.
     
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  9. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    I think I can finally call it... NO GAS!

    Long story short, charging AUX battery again didn't work.... remembered I had meant to get gas first thing this morning. I filled up a ~5 gallon tank, put it in the car and we're in business. The gas gauge didn't budge from 1/4 tank. Drove to the gas station and filled up ~6 more gallons and the gas gauge is now at the top. Only thing I can't explain is why my dash mileage is at 350 miles. I may have reset it instead of B, or on accident or something.

    Does this mean most likely whatever is reading the level in the tank is getting stuck? That'd be a part of the fuel pump right? Worth even looking into?

    I must have driven exactly all my added gas off last night and ended up safe in my driveway, realistically it was probably 1/2 gallon. I remember the last 2 miles of my drive being all EV cause I got lucky and made 2 stop lights.

    I was completely thrown off by thinking that adding gas didn't correspond with the car starting, but the HV was probably dead by that point. That and the dash mileage mysteriously being exactly where it should be when the meter died. I knew he had a point about the gas meter, I just should have never trusted that damn dash mileage. A perfect storm of dumbness.

    Thanks so much for anyone who chimed in.

    Quick note: The HV never got an bit warm just doing fill charges at 350mA.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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  11. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    The next domino to fall is now the fuel pump since it was starved of gasoline. Gasoline keeps it lubed, without gasoline it slowly burns up.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Any time there's a party that needs livening up ....
     
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  13. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    A bad fuel pump which is seized in place offers no fuel pressure. The engine will crank for 7 seconds and sound like an engine that is running but it actually is not. You will get that p3190 code that you got. Bidirectional scanner like the dealer computer offers you the ability to switch the fuel pump off and on for testing purposes
     
  14. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    The level float in the [pump assy, gas] oftentimes hangs up on the contour of the tank if the person who installed it doesn't have the alignment right
     
  15. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    It's probably a good idea to not let the level get below 1/4 of a tank.
    Since I do a lot of highway driving and about 700 miles a week I fill up
    at half a tank. Or as close as possible. If I get stuck on the interstate because
    of a wreck, I'd rather have as much fuel as possible.
    And don't rely on the fuel gauge. Keep track on your mileage, and mpg.
    Then you'll know you have "x" amount of miles per tank and you won't run dry.

    You might want to start saving up for a fuel pump. Just in case running it dry and
    trying to start it so many times you damaged it, shortening it's life.

    I hope that your problem is resolved!

     
  16. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    That must have been it. Curious to note that pouring gas super slowly from a container didn't make the gas meter budge but then high flow fill up from the gas station did. I have a feeling it'll be fixed for now, but I'll have it to look forward to again in the future. At least if my pump goes I'll get to fix the meter.


    I'm already one of those people. I always reset my dash trip meter after filling up. That's the first thing my wife said to me when I told her it was no gas and my meter wasn't working, "Don't you go by mileage anyways?" I have no idea what happened this time, but OF COURSE that's the time it would fail.
     
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  17. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Life happens!
    I always look for the simplist and easiest things first....

    The faster, more volume flow was probably enough to break it free so it could move....

     
  18. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    You have to get silicone grease from the pool supply store and the pictorial online. There's a lineup indicator on the pump /level assembly and the gas tank. Apply a lot of silicone lube to the large o-ring. Other greases react with the gasoline
     
  19. Karen Sarkisian

    Karen Sarkisian New Member

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    Hello can any one help me on why the relay for my hv blower is below 3.9v and not 12v I hear the relay clicking but the fan won’t turn on
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    best to start a new thread