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Coffee

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, May 10, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Extracting the best flavor from coffee

    In 2020, researchers found that more finely ground coffee beans brew a weaker espresso. This counterintuitive experimental result makes sense if, for some reason, regions exist within the coffee bed where less or even no coffee is extracted. This uneven extraction becomes more pronounced when coffee is ground more finely.

    In Physics of Fluids, University of Huddersfield researchers explored the role of uneven coffee extraction using a simple mathematical model. They split the coffee into two regions to examine whether uneven flow does in fact make weaker espresso.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The science of coffee extraction has always been a fascinating topic among coffee connoisseurs (a.k.a. coffee snobs). I watch James Hoffman's YouTube, read Jonathan Gagné book, and subscribe to Robert McKeon Aloe's Medium blog. They are all fun and interesting. BUT... in the very end, a cup of coffee is just a beverage to be consumed. Its enjoyment is based on personal preference. It is more of a culinary art than a science of fluid dynamics which determines "the best flavor" from coffee.

    That's why I roast my own coffee to my liking. I will be receiving a new profile roaster this summer. I am excited to test its capability and compare it with my other past three roasters.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    for me, it's quantity over quality :oops:
     
  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Just out of my personal curiosity, I recently picked up a bag of Dunkin Original Blend whole-bean coffee at a local supermarket at $7 for a 12oz bag. I did a blind-tasting test with this bean and some of my own roasted coffee and a few others I picked up at local roasters.

    upload_2023-5-10_14-13-23.png
    I know America Runs on Dunkin. But it was not for me! The coffee had no aroma, a flat and stale flavor, but bitter and astringent. It was so obvious that I can pick this coffee as the worst cup among 10 other coffees of my own roast or from specialty coffee roasters. All other coffees were roasted fresh within a few days. But this bag of Dunkin coffee I bought last day of April 2023 had no roasting day posted but had a BEST USED BY FEB 05 2024. I really had to wonder when it was roasted? All I know was that it was not freshly roasted. It may have been roasted last year before it got to the store shelf. No wonder it tastes like cardboard.

    BTW, most specialty coffee roasters sell their roasted coffee at anywhere from $12 to $24 for a 12oz bag. So, yeah compared to them Dunkin is cheap. But my own roasted coffee comes out to be $6.70 for 12oz on average. That's from over 600 lbs of green coffee beans I have purchased and roasted over the last 16 years.
    upload_2023-5-10_14-14-36.png
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i never drank coffee until i was backpacking in europe in '71. it was free and either that or tea.
    we drank dunkin for 25 years. it was originally from the boston area. to me, it tasted as good or better than anything we had been making at home (chock full o nuts, folgers, etc.)

    when we bought our marriott timeshare 20 years ago, they were exclusively starbucks, and i thought it was awful. (too strong with a burnt taste) but after two months, when we got home and went back to dunkin, it tasted weak. so we were hooked on starbucks.

    now, were on to carpe diem from maine mail order. strong like starbucks, but i have kidney disease and potassium is an issue, so i only use 4 scoops to make 12 cups in a drip maker. didn't take long to get used to it, and the reduced caffeine intake is a bonus.

    i've had really good coffee at a few restaurants over the years, so i know what you mean. but i can live without it.
    i just enjoy the whole morning experience, make it last about 2 hours :)
     
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    When we were still living in your neck of the wood, I sourced daily roast whole beans from legendary George Howelle's Coffee Connection. He is known for his contribution to spreading the third wave of the coffee movement. But his business Coffee Connection was sold to Starbucks (the second wave of the coffee movement giant). The quality of their daily roast went down the drain and all became Charbucks no matter what origin of beans I bought. I moved on to a different local micro-roaster very quickly.

    The last Starbucks coffee I had was probably at a convention center in San Diego some 10+ years ago. That was the only coffee shop available. It was so bad, that I had to throw away a Venti cup just after a sip. I already had started roasting my own coffee for my own home brewing by then. After I moved to a remote rural Maine town, I had no way to source good freshly roasted coffee beans. That's how I picked up my home coffee roasting hobby. This was before online coffee shops proliferated. So, ever since, whenever I am away from home for a long trip, I traveled with my own roasted coffee and portable hand coffee grinder, and a V60 brewer. As long as I can get hot water, I can brew my own coffee.

    BTW, George Howelle has since re-opened his own roasteries around Boston.
    George Howell Coffe

    They are very exclusive and expensive. I have not yet tried any, but one of those days, I am going to try their Limited Roast. La Esmeralda Cabana, Panama Yes, $68 for a 4 oz bag of roasted coffee. And you must place an order by 6am EST on the roast date, otherwise, you are out of luck.
     
    #6 Salamander_King, May 10, 2023
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I noticed this super coffee is from Boquete Panama. That name is familiar as an expat retirement spot, now with gated communities etc. But the climate and (volcanic) soils are very good for coffee.

    While you're waiting, consider a different boutique choice from that area, but not outlandish price:

    http://www.cafesdelaluna.com/

    I get nothing for posting that link, and I assume S_K is in the same boat.

    ==
    Science started this thread so I mention that coffee is more sensitive to VPD stress than any other plant that has been published on. VPD stress means air is warm and dry enough to pull water from leaves. When leaves cannot keep up, they close stomates and quit doing photosynthesis. So 2000 meters on slopes of a volcano works. I hazard to guess this area is also climate change proof. At least for a while :D
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think the climate change is going to rewrite the coffee belt map sooner than later. It has already started affecting farmstead negatively in recent years.

    A future without coffee? Climate change could wipe out 50% of global coffee ... https://www.iadb.org/en/improvinglives/most-unexpected-effect-climate-change
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I think this has come from Kath's research on coffee VPD. I had the same in mind. If you grow at lowest elevation among the nearby folks, especially southern exposure, problems with VPD may be at hand. If you grow highest on northern exposure, bean business should stay OK.

    Global scale mappings are useful but VPD presents itself at km scales.

    Coffee ain't cocaine but it is right up there among global commodities. Stressing at unusually low VPD of 8 hectoPascals got a lot of interest percolating. Tea stresses at VPD of 22, which is typical for most plants. I don't know why coffee is odd. Kath didn't say. Maybe its water conducting xylem is wimpy.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Brazil is largest coffee producer. Those areas (as I understand) lack convenient nearby mountains for uphill crop migration. Grande problema.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I am no expert on Coffea species plant physiology, but my understanding is that Coffea arabica plants produce most of the world's supply of coffee crops now. The specialty coffee industry has been focusing on the variety of Arabica and many coffee companies have been marketing it as superior to other species of coffee, especially Robusta. As a result, most coffee aficionados think Rubusta (Coffea canephora) is a cheap and less flavorful inferior coffee crop. As turned out, Coffea canephora is more tolerant of higher temperatures and they are more disease resistant. The world's second-largest coffee-producing country, Vietnam produces most of the Robusta coffee for the world. And there is now increased demand for higher quality Robusta coffee worldwide.

    And there are even rarer species of coffee that are in production. Coffea liberica and its subspecies Excelsa are even more promising to survive climate change. I have been sourcing those other species of green coffee from Phillipin, Malaysia, and Vietnam and roasting them at home. And I now know "100% Arabica coffee" is nothing but a marketing gimmick, very similar to the marketing pitch for the "Rich Dark Roast" a decade ago by major coffee processing companies like Folgers. Robusta, Libelica, and Excelsa when sourced from farms that take good care of their crops and roast them carefully to enhance their terroir characteristics, all make a superb cup of coffee far better than 100% Premium Arabica Dunkin Coffee.

    The re-emergence of Liberica coffee as a major crop plant
     
    #11 Salamander_King, May 10, 2023
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
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  12. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I wish I knew the difference, but somewhat recently I went with my son to Klatch Coffee (local company). I wasn’t impressed. The Greenwell Farms (Kona) coffee we brought home would clear a headache in one sip, whereas the one cup did nothing to clear my headache at Klatch. (The owner/founder of Klatch is a chemist)….
     
  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I'm still employed.
    I do not intend to stay that way until people start making uncomfortable comparisons with me and octogenarian and near-octogenarian political leaders.
    HOWEVER (comma!)
    My body and my brain are still working (for now!) at a level that will support me working as a layer 1-2 telecom tech so I'll keep the cleats on until the coach pulls me off the field.

    SO....
    I simply have neither the time nor the desire NOR the equipment to support a deep dive into pH levels, burr grinding, water solubility, and Maillard reaction studies.

    I just need a freekin' cup of coffee!
    Caffeinated.
    Black and bitter.
    I learned to enjoy it that way because I knew I'd more often that not be able to GET it that way!

    My current go-to is McCafe store grind through a drip machine.
    In a pinch, I'll use a pour-over.
    The advantage of using this method is that if I get called out at oh-dark-thirty because some alcohol alchemist or a storm causes a network outage I can still get the same blend at.......(wait for it!) McDonalds.

    Far from "the best damn coffee", but miles away from the worst.

    Sometimes?
    Good enough....really IS.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I can get a 'discount' senior cup. I then pour out enough to add ice and enjoy my black, iced coffee.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    In Dixie this is not a bad way to go.....
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my 98 year old dad loved a cup of 78 cent mickey d's
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Decades ago I was talking to a Brazilian fella about their coffee. He said that the better exports (arabica) all went to the middle east. The largest exports were of robusta and went to USA.

    ==
    Plant physiology is not gustatation. Or as coffee people call it, 'cupping'. Arabica varieties, in particular terroirs develop interesting gustatory notes for those deep into those cups. S_K has fond some non arabicas that cup well for him.

    I imagine that climate change will challenge mainstream coffee growing, and that boutiques will find a way to glide through. Coffee rust (fungus) is a whole 'nother thing. Fungi generally like the low-VPD conditions where super coffees are grown.
     
  18. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    That stuff is the best. Taste tested there brought a bunch home and then ordered some later. Worth it.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I used to roast the green beans ordered from here:
    Smithfarms 100% Pure Kona Coffee | Established in 1988 and on the Internet Since January 1999!

    The Kona Coffee Farmers Association says the Hawaiʻi coffee industry is bracing for what could be one of their worst years for production. That will likely mean higher prices for coffee drinkers as well.

    On Hawaiʻi Island, some farmers say their crop yields are down 30% to 40%. Part of the trouble involves coffee leaf rust and the coffee berry borer beetle.

    But heat and drought have been a big factor this year, according to Suzanne Shriner, head of the association.

    Retired, I've found an acceptable brand and roast from Costco:

    upload_2023-6-3_17-49-21.png

    Bob Wilson
     
    #19 bwilson4web, Jun 3, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  20. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    Believe or not, I like Folgers regular blend. It brews just fine. No bitter taste. I drink it black, with some splenda.
     
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