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Death Rattle and when erg blocked car almost dies.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Brandon2333, Apr 15, 2023.

  1. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    Haha yeah I got the “death rattle” term from YouTube videos when I was trying to figure all this new stuff out.

    I order a head gasket kit and new head bolts from Toyota, they should be in today.

    I think I’ve got the head gasket job pretty figured out from some YouTube videos.
    I’m still trying to figure out what type of gasket maker to use. Is Permatex ultra black the go to? Or do y’all recommend something else?
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Gasket Masters is using it. One advantage: its cure time is a lot longer. The application method they use in their videos seems sensible too.

    there’s a couple of head gasket links in my signature; if on a phone turn it landscape to see signature.
     
  3. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I don't know if you've done one of these or not, butttt......
    Did you get the 2nd part of kit? The one that has the oil filter housing "O" rings and the
    water pump gasket and the front crankshaft seal? If not, do it! Or you'll be running to Toyota to
    get them. Like I did. :(:mad:

    I go their black sealent in the tube. I think I used less than half of it. And not leaks!
    There are 2 little "O" rings I couldn't figure out where they went. One goes on the valve cover,
    near the oil filler, and the other one goes on the timing chain cover the 10mm(head) in the lower third.

    There is also a square "O" ring that goes on the cam next to the sprockets, next to the 3 section one.
    It will probably stick to the valve cover. One of the guys couldn't find the right one, the other pulled up
    the cam hold down clamp to find it.
    If you take the 2nd from the spocket cam clamp off, and fold up two pieces of a paper towl too a 4 piece
    section you can lay them across the cam and tighten the two "black" 10mm bolts down and it will hold
    the cams in place. After you put the crank at the zero mark, and make sure the cams are in their respected
    positions. It makes it really easy to put the chain on.

    Don't forget the 12 point "triple square" head bolt tool, like I did! Autozone has it in a 4 piece set, you have to
    look at the tools section to find it. It's $16. discount auto wants $30....

    If you are going to do the valve guide seals, and you should. Make sure you get a spring compressor that is
    small enough for the Prius. Mine was just a little too big and I was lucky to find a washer to fit over the valve that
    the two teeth of the compressor was able to fit on. After you remove the spring, put the whole thing in a box or
    jar so if the compressor slips, parts don't go flying off somewhere and you spend an hour or so looking for it. :whistle::whistle:

    I only had one valve, the intake on the #4 cylinder closest to the end of the head that leaked. But I seated them
    all in. I have a bench grinder with a wired wheel that goes a good job of cleaning off the valve. Mine were pretty
    nasty and I had to take my scraper the clean off some of the carbon the wheel couldn't get.

    It sure runs a LOT smoother! And I gained 2-3 mpg!


     
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  4. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    Thanks for all the tips AsrDogman!

    I got this gasket kit for my 2010 Prius. Toyota pn 04111-37316 does that have everything you were talking about or is there more that I need or order?
    Thanks!
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota specs 10 mm double hex. There is a difference. The double hex is available on Amazon.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, you can get the spec'd 10 mm double hex in a set like this one:

    https://ctatools.com/products/9295

    When people use the wrong tool, the wrong tool they usually use is a 12 mm triple-square. Triple square and double hex have the same number of points, of course, and the 12 triple-square kinda fits, but if you draw both you can see the triple-square is too pointy, and won't engage the sides of the head bolt recess as well as the correct 10 mm double hex.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    A couple of cans of carb cleaner and brake cleaner.
    Might as well clean the cooler and intake manifold while it's off.

    Wait until you have the cam shafts holder off to do the exhaust manifold. Plenty of room
    when it's out of the way. And then attach it before installing the cam shafts holder.

    Take notes. Sandwich bags to put the nuts and bolts in, and label them.
    Rubber gloves. Lot's of patients! Don't rush, take your time.
    You don't have to take the injectors rail off. You disconnect that whitest plastic cover
    then squeeze the two squares and release the fuel line.

    Maybe take photos of what and where the cables are you disconnect.

     
  8. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    Thanks a million times everyone!
    You all saved me with the advice and on the double hex sockets. Just ordered up a set on Amazon they’ll be in tomorrow.
    Been marking everything with paint pens. Labeling all my bags of bolts.
    I’m about 6 hours in. Working after work for about 3 hours each night. My current status is in the picture.
     

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  9. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    Ok here’s what I found.
    This is all new to me so I need advice.
    My plan was just to do the head gasket and clean everything up with a green scrub pad wd40 and break cleaner.
    I wasn’t planning on doing the valve guide seals unless y’all say it’s critical.
    How bad is this and is it ok to do what I said above or do y’all really recommend a machine shop?
    Also any other advice and on things to do while I’m in here?
    Just an fyi I was planning on getting this all done over the holiday weekend if possible.

    thanks!
     

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  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    3 cylinders look like the valves have been cleaned, big leak.
    You really need to check that the head is not warped first. No point in doing
    anything else if the head is warped, and how bad and can it be safely shaved.
    Did you spray wd40 into the intake/exhaust ports and check if any of the valves are leaking?
    If they are, you need to get some valve grinding compound and seat them in. Clean them off
    very well with carb cleaner!
    If they aren't leaking, you're okay. You should still do the valve guide seals, since you have them,
    and you have the head off. 30 minute job. Just get a small valve spring compressor.

    Clean clean clean! Clean the head and remove the old gasket material. Then check if it's warped.
    If you have a metal ruler you can check it.
    Clean the pistons off. Stick rags in the water ports so nothing goes down them.

    It's probably best if you remove each valve, one at a time, and clean off all the carbon.
    If you have a bench grinder with a wired wheel, it will be easy.

    But most important, check the head for warpage...

     
  11. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    I did it!

    Put it all back together and it actually worked! Haha no problems so far. Thank you all for all your advice and help!


    Here’s what I used to fix my blown head gasket on my 2010 Prius in 2023.


    I ended up going with the Toyota gasket kit over the better felpro gasket kit due to the felpro missing 2 orings according to the reviews.


    Toyota part numbers:

    04111-37316 gasket kit engine overhaul
    90910-A2011 bolt cylinder head- bought 10 of them


    1 tube of permatex ultra black gasket maker - I bought from autozone Walmarts had a different part number I didn’t know if it was a different formula.
    2 gallons of coolant
    Latex gloves
    Brake cleaner
    Green scrub pads
    1 oil change
    100% needed the head bolt sockets I would of stripped them taking them out other wise -https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006Z58VXC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


    Total cost:

    $371 Toyota parts
    $260 machine shop for head
    $250ish for tools I didn’t have and supply’s gloves, brake cleaner ect.


    $881 to do it myself.


    Labor.

    2 on and off days research, watching videos and getting the confidence to do the job
    9 hours to take it apart
    3 hours of cleaning
    12 hours to put it back together

    Time included watching a video then doing the step it adds a lot of time

    If I were to do it all over again I think I could do the whole job in 12 to 15 hours, if this is what you did day in and out and had a shop set up for it I think it’s about a 9 hour job not including cure time on the gasket seal.


    Tips for anyone doing this


    #1 from everything I read don’t use the cheap fix a head gasket in a can you’ll end up having more issues… I was very tempted trust me


    I used the following videos as my guides both of the videos have tips that the other doesn’t mention I recommend both.









    Paint pens were a life saver for me marking my bolts and hoses different colors helped me a ton putting everything back correctly.


    Use sandwich bags and label where all your bolts come from


    Used my tire wrench to help me get on and off my harmonic balancer bolts.


    Thanks again!
     

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  12. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    So my car is holding up but I’m burning thorough oil after I cleaned up those pistons…. about 2.5 qts per week /800 miles. Took apart my Egr again just to check it. it was completely clogged with in 10k miles.
    How long do I have before I need to get a new vehicle?
     
  13. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Maybe "cleaning" the piston rings made them worse....
    Next move would be to either replace the pistons and ring with the latest 2015 ones...
    Or get a new short block....

    If the cooler is clogged at 10,000 miles, and using that much oil, I think the oil rings have failed...

     
  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Until it starts using 0 quarts.
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The cylinder walls must be scored. Could be verified with a quality dual camera borescope. I would not spend the money to buy one unless I was in the business.

    Repair requires another engine, used, JDM used, short block or complete rebuild of a used engine.

    I would go complete rebuild of a used engine. Second choice would be a JDM used engine.
     
  16. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I just got through disassembling my US specification 2 ZZ 2.8 persona engine . What I can tell you is the piston ring design especially the oil control ring is piss poor seriously I have yet to see one out of a 2ZZ of a Corolla or other vehicle non-hybrid to see if they're the same I don't think so The design they're using in the Prius is inexcusable to be honest about it and can't be doing anything for my gas mileage that needs to create this kind of nonsense I will take the two tenths miles less or whatever they think they got going on rather than this. Other than that the Pistons themselves the thrust crosshatches that are etched into the Pistons were completely unscathed the upper two rings were not stuck to the Pistons and were reasonably flexible nothing like deves. That's a swedish ring manufacturer that makes rings that stay out against the cylinder wall there's spring steel. As rings should be. Everything else looked really good all the bearings crank and connecting rod big end were perfect no copper showing almost perfectly bedded in all the Babbitt material still intact even on the rod that broke and got pounded I was quite surprised actually for almost 300,000 miles or 250 whatever the high 200s.
     
  17. ttou68

    ttou68 Active Member

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    I've always check cylinder head movement, make sure they are able to spring back and forth from all directions, and also check if it drain properly...
    If not, soak them in cleaning chemicals then move them all directions to degrees and unstuck those piston tings before reassemble gasket and head back together...
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. Yeah I know what it’d take to fix it but this car isn’t worth it at this point she’s lived a rough life.. hitting 3 hogs, 1 coyote, a bobcat, and drives down gravel roads every day. I’m more wondering how fast I have to purchases new car if anyone has a good guess? Weeks, months, a year if I keep it topped up and clean the Egr every 10k? I’ve always loved my 3 Prius’s gotten easy 300k out of everyone but this gen 3.
     
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Months maybe. Add oil every gas up. Forget the egr, a false flag. Bad rings were the real and continuing problem.

    If you can do a hg, you could do a JDM engine swap. Maybe $2k. Drive it for a year and then buy new. Corolla Cross S hybrid is pretty close or a Rav4 xle hybrid.
     

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  20. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    That corolla is UGLY! EWWWW Toyota is going backwards on their vehicles, very sad.
    94mpg for the rav4 isn't bad. Cost's WAY too much though....