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No Voltage on the engine side, 212V on Batt side

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Josephphamy, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    20161102_101146.jpg 20161102_101102.jpg I have a problem on 2005 Prius, I have 0 volts on the Engine side and 212 V on the Battery side. Last week the Car failed to start I found 1 cell was 6.20 V, one is 7.10 Volt. Since I have 2 spares so i replaced both lowest cells, the car started fine, i did the test drive for 30 mins no problem. Next day My daughter drove to school about 1 hr distance, it broke down, all the lights on the dash lit up and not running. I opened the battery to check all cells are good they are around 7.6, 7.7 Volt. I inspected all the cells and found 1 of the temperature sensors broke, the one on the first cell and found some liquid on the metal cover at one side of the first 3 cells . I think i accidently drop the 1st cell on the floor, it pulled the cable when I disassembled the cells, that was why the sensor cable broke. i resoldered the cable, inspected and tested all the cells before put back to the car. It has the same problem It did not start, all the lights are still on the dash.

    I checked the safety plug fuse with ohm meter OK, all connections oK but NO Voltage on the otherside of the battery. My 12 V battery bought from the dealer 6 months ago. I checked all the fuse in the front in the engine compartment OK.. On May 2015 I replaced 2 cells I did not have any problem!

    Would someone please help me, I really dont know what to check next. Thank you. Joseph
     
    #1 Josephphamy, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Do you have diagnostic equipment? Like techstream?
     
  3. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    I Diagnosed with Cen-tech and I gave me 2 codes (please see the attached images). I checked both relays that connect the high voltage from the battery to the engine are opened. From those relays I see both of the green wires are grounded and other 2 wires are yellow and black are to the white connector and looks like going to the front or somewhere. I expect these 2 yellow and black must be positive voltages like 12 v or something to create the magnetic field on a coil inside the relay to click the contact point to close position (when power switch is pressed) connecting the high voltages (orange). But both yellow and black are 0 volts so I am thinking it must be the computer signal corrupted. I decided to "Clear the codes" . Now all warning lights are off and the car started. I am going to put everything back and drive test.
    I will update 20161102_121818.jpg 20161102_121538.jpg

    Thank you for your hint. i wish I had the Schematic wiring diagram it would be easier to troubleshoot.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    techinfo.toyota.com is where you need to be.

    You mentioned "both" relays, but there are in fact three, one on the negative side, and two on the positive side (one with a resistor for capacitor precharging, the other without a resistor, pulled in after the precharge operation).

    When you get signed in on techinfo, in addition to looking in the wiring diagram manual, you should also look (first!) at the New Car Features Manual where it describes the operation of those relays and the precharge - READY - OFF sequences.

    That the relays were not energized hardly ever means "the computer signal corrupted"; it typically means the computer has noticed a legitimate reason to refuse to energize them. In your case, it is telling you about detecting that one of your three relays fails to open when de-energized, and that's a safety problem worth looking at (which becomes a more serious safety problem if either of the other two ever becomes sticky also).

    -Chap
     
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  5. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    There is a wiring diagram for an '05 in the file library attached to this subforum. Here it is.
     
  6. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Thanks Andrew and Chap. Just ran 10 min test drive, everything OK now
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome! congrats and well done.(y)
     
  8. ILuvMyPriusToo

    ILuvMyPriusToo Senior Member

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    If the problem reoccurs, confirm you are in READY before trying to test the voltages or else those relays will be open.
     
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  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    When the problem comes back, replace the relay which switches the negative battery line. That is the one which was stuck closed according to DTC P0AA4.
     
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  10. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Sorry I dont understand what is "confirm you are in READY.." ?thank you
     
    #10 Josephphamy, Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
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  11. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Thanks Patrick. I don't know if Toyota dealer has that part. Do you have the part number or source?
     
  12. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Prius keeps those relays open unless it’s in READY.
     
  13. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Here is the update. I drove yesterday approx 20 miles no problem, this morning taking the kid to a local school, the problem came back "all warning light on" when I was near home by the corner.. turn off the engine and won't able to turn on. If I clear the code, it would run again but I don't want to do that yet but i need to find the "root" of the problem. I have experience in electrical / computer since 1986 but honestly i am dump in Hybrid and need help from this forum. i understand the battery.. is chemical reaction in the cells and have their expectency life, I checked the voltage but not exactly testing the current if each "piece" unless I have a load. Buying the brand new battery is too expensive and I can't afford it.
    Someone please help..
     
  14. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Sorry I forgot to mention. Before the problem occured, one piece is bad only 6.2 volt. I bought it from Ebay from a Prius III 2012. I thought 2012 car is new and at least the battery pack has more yrs life than 2005 but had no idea the power rating on the pack (cell). does anyone know if the 2012 battery pack is the same as 2005?
    Joseph
     
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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Before you spend too much effort on guessing, remember that the car's computer has already told you in plain English what problem it logged: one of the system main relays sticking closed.

    Technically, it's possible your problem this time is something else (would have to read the codes again to be sure), but as Patrick suggested, if it was a sticking SMR last time, and that wasn't fixed, there's a good chance we can guess what code you have this time.

    -Chap
     
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  16. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Updating.. I ran the diagnostic but there is NO code. I unplug, plug back in I did 4 times still no code. I thought may be because I changed the oil but my daughter did not reset the oil warning.. so I reset the oil and cleared the code. Lights are cleared. Drive test for 5 minutes, Red Triangle and other lights came back on again.. Checked again, Still NO code. Next step I will pull out the relays and test them.

    Otherwise, What should I do next,? please help
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If the red triangle and other lights come on, there are codes. It is odd that your code reader isn't seeing them (if it is the same Cen-tech that was able to read them last time), but still, if it doesn't see them, that doesn't mean they aren't there. You need to know what problem your car is telling you about, so if you need to visit someone who has Techstream to have the codes definitively read, then that's what needs to happen.

    -Chap
     
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  18. Josephphamy

    Josephphamy Junior Member

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    Here is the final update. I called 2 Toyota dealers, they both said the batteries of 2012 "should be" OK for 2005. I understand they are mechanic, they are good in swapping parts, but might not understand or have electrical background therefore I did not change anything but swapped the 2012 batteries with 2 good used 2009 batteries, sofar it works for more than 2 weeks no problem. So, the 3rd generation 2010 and newer WILL NOT work on 2004-2009. Back track: the car runs great until i changed 1 bad cell with 2012, diagnostic test reported bad relay but i tested it functions fine. Just Batteries. thanks for all your helps! Joseph
     
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  19. Longinus876

    Longinus876 Junior Member

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    I don't know how to use this thing. Did you ever get an answer to your question?
     
  20. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Sounds to me more like it was a P0AA6 problem. A grounded module.

    Here is the final update. I called 2 Toyota dealers, they both said the batteries of 2012 "should be" OK for 2005.
    That is 100% correct, they are interchangeable.

    I understand they are mechanic, they are good in swapping parts, but might not understand or have electrical background therefore I did not change anything but swapped the 2012 batteries with 2 good used 2009 batteries, sofar it works for more than 2 weeks no problem.
    See my first statement. Your symptoms were indicative of a P0AA6.

    So, the 3rd generation 2010 and newer WILL NOT work on 2004-2009.
    This is incorrect.