Featured Nearly Half of [US] Shoppers See Public Charging as an EV Dealbreaker

understandable. some have real concerns, while others just use things like charging stations as an excuse.
on the plus side, we wouldn't want everyone going ev all at once.

 

Chargers have to be as cheap as an extension cord and as indestructible as a tank and as common as gravel.

EVSEs have come down in price to about $80.

One way forward is like Britain with its “bring your own cord” setups that remove some of the cost and theft/vandalism targets .

Another is having L1 or slow L2 outlets everywhere which costs very little compared to chargers and while working or shopping with 1/2hr plus stops is enough to get you from location to location in a city.

 

The flip side: the number of shoppers not being held back by this public EV charging issue, greatly exceeds the current EV supply. Today's bottleneck is elsewhere.

 

This is a red herring... Availability of EVs to buy right now is the only real limit.

Unlike fossil fool vehicles that are 100% dependent on places you have to drive to buy gas... Every EV owner can top off their charge every time they get home all the way to the next time they leave the house.

This article is just more range anxiety propaganda that has a receptive audience in people who don't own an EV yet. But there's almost zero complaints from actual EV owners who never have to give another penny to planet killing gasoline sellers. And with Tesla fast becoming that standard for charging systems, the notion that finding places to charge up is still limiting sales is entirely dead!

 

perception is reality

 

I live in one of the worst places to own an EV and I can see me getting along just fine with an EV as long as it had at least a 200 mile range in the summer (around100 in the winter) and could charge at least in half an hour to 80%.

 

You say the article is just more range anxiety propaganda but ironically you cant see the propaganda in your own comment itself?

There are several complaints from EV owners, and availability of EVs right now is not the only limit. If everyone drove EVs, the amount electricity needed for the grid would triple what it already is. That means so would the price, which would make gasoline vehicles cheaper to drive than EVs.

And this isnt even accounting for the high cost of batteries and short longitivety lifespan with enviromental factors like the hot or cold shortening their range.

Range anxiety is real and not propaganda. No one is going to be happy wanting to wait 40 mins to recharge for 100 miles of range. With gas, you know you have 10 gallons and itll get you 400 miles regardless if its hot or cold or if you are using your AC. Fast to fill up, easy to store on the go, plentiful and reliable easily available anywhere within 10 mile radius.

Evs are a joke lol

 

Oh my, where to start?

• If more EVs were available, more would be sold. This can be seen by wait lists. Thus, at this moment, production is the primary bottleneck.
• Battery pack lifespan seems to be plenty long, cold has a temporary effect on range (ICE cars also loose range in winter, just not as much). Heat can lower range, but not if the car’s battery management works well.
• Range anxiety is most common in people that don’t own an EV. In many people, any range anxiety disappears after their first trip in an EV.
• I have never heard of someone waiting 40 minutes to charge 100 miles.

 

• "Range anxiety" - has not been a problem for 111,953 miles
• "40 mins for 100 miles" - SuperCharging takes about 15 minutes for 100 miles
• "With gas" - you don't fill up at home often while sleeping; pay $3-$4 per gallon, and; oil, coolant, air filter, PVC, valve chain, spark plug, injector cleaning, plus noise+vibration. There is also catalytic converter stealing and emissions testing.

Tell us about your EV and how many miles you put on it.

Bob Wilson

 

Super charger =/= home charging. I am specifically talking about non-super charging at home, where a house 120V max outlet output is 2KW AN HOUR. Average EV is 40kw tank. Thats 20 hours of waiting from empty to full.
An average EV gets 4 miles per KW. So you wait an entire hour to go 8 miles, nice.

The reason i dont wanna bring super chargers into this is because it costs 3x more than home outlet so a prius gas would end up being cheaper mile per mile which makes driving a EV have zero advantages.

But you acknowledged my previous points by downplaying their severity in your own opinionated conclusions. Yes, theres not enough EVs because the cost to profit in creating them and selling is only profitable to the luxury market; high income buyers. Car manufacturers need to turn a profit and you cannot get a reasonable priced EV with the cost that EV required to be made. And again, if hypothetically they could and everyone would be driving EVs, the new demand for more electricity would drastically increase the price of electricity for everything and it would not be cheaper to drive EVs.
Also, the longitivity is plenty to you, but to those of us who want the value of our cars to last, EVs are the worst investment to ever be bought. No other car will lose as much value as EVs do with time passing. This is strictly because 90% of the cost is the batteries themselves and they degrade overtime so the entire value of the car degrades too since thats what youre paying for.

I dont own a EV and never will most likely. The closest ill get is a prius and thats because I love electric motors and their simplicity.

15 mins is still long time for me, especially for only 100 miles. Whats worse is my prius, gas at $3 a gallon, gets 500 miles per 10 gallons. For what, $30? I refill less than 15 minutes. Maybe 4 max.
Superchargers cost more than $30 for a 500 mile range, i did the math.

To your last point, im a mechanic so all those things you mentioned are trivial and simple for me to troubleshoot and repair myself. EVs use coolant and oil too in order to cool the electric motor, just like anything else. It is prone to breaking just like any car is if not serviced. While its true, some issues you might avoid altogether, you get new issues like flooding destroying the entire car or batteries being sensitive to extreme cold or extreme hot environments. I am not against EVs as a concept, just the impracticality of going full EV. The only perk is the charge at home, as its convenient, but everything else is not.

And i dont live in a blue state so there is no emission testing here nor cats being stolen lol. Last i heard people get shot here for trying that.

 

As long as I don't need an app, I'm good with it.

 

Everything now needs an app ... my car, my refrigerator, my watch, my grocer.... But all those apps can often be ignored once set up.

 

Your post being replied too was about waiting 40 minutes for get 100 miles at a public charger.

Moving with the goal posts, do you drive over 200 miles on a normal day before getting home? 8 hours charging at Level 1, which this is, at will yield 32 miles. that is plenty for many people's daily use. And that charging while they are in their home doing other things.

The OT is about the public chargers. The majority of charging is done at home for far lower costs. Even with some pricey public charging, and EV will be cheaper per mile.

The profit margin on a Tesla is over 20%. That is without the manufacturing capacity of the likes of Toyota. They could cut thousands of the price of a Model 3, but you know, capitalism.

The costs of making an EV have been dropping. The supply of resources is lagging. Until the mines and factories come on line, most manufacturers are limited in the number of EVs they can build. So they build what yields the most profit, and they don't seem to have a problem selling them.

The Model T was not the first car Henry Ford built.

US infrastructure is in sad shape. Regardless of whether EVs are sold or not. The grid needs to be fixed no matter what. That said, the gorwth of EVs isn't straining the grid, as most charging, at home, is done during periods of low electricity demand. Their causing power plants to run more at night actually helps the grid.

You're 90% figure is ridiculous.

The battery in the bZ4X cost Toyota $37,800? That's $525 a kWh. The battery in the Prius Prime would be $7000, yet they charge $5500 more for it.

Do you pay less for gas you use for driving around home?

You just get shot for turning around when lost, knocking on the wrong door, or going to school.

 

Oil in an EV? Where???

 

Around the electric motor, you know, to cool and lubricate it.

Trollbait, fitting name, yes i do drive 200 miles a day when i uber or go long distances. 32 miles is barely enough to work and back if you dont live in a city. And again, what are you going with, home charging or supercharger? Because supercharger is NOT cheaper than gas per mile if we are comparing to a prius. I like how you put the EV *will* be cheaper per mile as in future tense to cover your claim lol. We both know thats unlikely to happen and if anything, the opposite.
Another thing, the growth of EV IS straining the grid. That energy has to come from somewhere and yes its calculated and created as demand spikes, but in any setting, if you require more, more will have to be produced from natural gas, nuclear, or wind/solar. You cant add extra demand and expect price to not increase without adding more supply. And to add more supply costs money and resources to produce more electricity. So to keep costs the same, we would have to double everything, from nuclear plants to natural gas. Because im pretty sure EVs take more energy in a day than your house takes in a week without excessive AC usage. So imagine that for everyone.

If you ever looked at what the cost for lithium batteries is, it would make sense to you that EVs been subsidized heavily. Because 1kw battery of lithium alone will cost about $700 give or take. I know because i do a lot of solar projects so im conscious of cost when it comes to batteries. If you can find a EV cheaper than $200 per 1kw of battery storage, ill buy it and tear it down and keep the batteries. But you wont because they dont exist and if they did, company would be bankrupt without government assistance. My 90% claim is not ridiculous when you look at what the KBB value of a old tesla is vs what it was during that year.

You do your own research and decide whats best for you. I think EVs are the biggest scam ever and ill try and educate people on why i think that but its ultimately up to you with your own money. Youre only hurting your wallet in my opinion, so go for it if you want. Ill stick to my ICE thank you very much

 

My EV has transaxle grease, more modern ones use normal coolant for cooling

Several years ago I bought a salvage Cadillac ELR 16.5kwhr battery for $985
So $60 a kwhr.


The distribution graph “miles per vehicle per day “ is basically an immense number near zero miles per day with a larger than expected number traveling large miles.

congratulations you are the 1 out of a thousand drivers that goes 75,000 miles and DONT MATTER in terms of EV adoption.

Likewise although an EV doesn’t work for you
Your experience really doesn’t matter because everyone other than you drives fewer miles. You literally are that one guy.

 

There are two coolant reservoirs (combined in one) on our new to us Mercedes EQB. There is no oil as far as I’m aware, although ethylene glycol is a carbon based liquid as oil is…

BTW- We get free charging at Electrify America stations 30 mins on, 60 mins off, for 2 years, (30 mins for every 1 1/2 hrs).

Range anxiety is real! And we’ve experienced waiting at a station line.

Battery degradation is a concern in the back of my mind but I’m wondering if we’ll keep it beyond the 2 yr lease.

 

There is gear oil in the drive units. They don't see the level of heat that ICE motor oil does, nor are they exposed to the emissions from burning fuel. Any maintenance intervals would be measured in lengths as used for transmissions and differentials. If the manufacturer simply doesn't list it as 'lifetime'.

You are an outlier. The median one way commute distance in the US is under 10 miles. https://www.streetlightdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Commutes-Across-America_180201.pdf

If the 30 or so miles gained from Level 1 charging isn't enough, install Level 2. EVs with over 200 miles of range can gain 40 miles an hour with that. Or stick with a gasser. The reality is that BEVs can work for millions of Americans right now.

I used will because I didn't feel like doing to math to see if a generic EV will always best a Prius in running costs, and there are the variables. You pay $3 a gallon. I pay over $3.70. Of the users here, it is mostly the ones in the New England region that seem to pay more to fuel a Prius Prime with electricity than with gas. Maine's electric rates are 25 cents/kWh, and gas $3.61/gal.

So it was EVs and not it getting too hot or cold causing the issues for Texa's grid? Where's the actual evidence of EV's straining the grid?

No need to double everything. "In 2021, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,632 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of about 886 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 14,302 kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,369 kWh per residential customer." Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Average annual miles driven is now 13,500. A bZ4X, not the most efficient EV, would need 3780kWh to cover that distance. 4200kWh if it gets up to 15,000 miles.

You are comparing retail prices to wholesale. The per kWh price to a manufacturer is in the $100 to $200.


EV Batteries Almost 90% Cheaper Today Versus 2008, DOE Estimates
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138078_ev-battery-cost-soared-in-2022-hampering-ev-affordability

The spread of LFP use and introduction of Na-ion will further bring the costs down.

GM was payimg something like $106 per kWh to LG for the Bolt battery cells. The replacement price for a new battery is under $250/kWh. That includes the case, wiring, etc. and labor. If it was 90%, it should be $24,000.

Of course, the replacement price only matters if the battery needs to be replaced. Recurrent sees a 1.5% replacement among its users. The average is pulled up by the first years of the Leaf and Model S. New Study: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last? At this point, the battery should last the life of ther car. It may not, but then that can be said about the engine and transmission of ICE ones.

 

EV, PHEV, or hybrid maintenance depends on the make and model of car. It serves you well to join a user forum for your particular car and participate. That is how I came to PriusChat in 2005 with my used, 2003 Gen 1 Prius.

I'm still here because I found an exceptionally bright community with very skilled, Canadian moderators. Currently, I like to be a bridge for Prius owners who decide to go EV in a Tesla way ... hopefully without being too much of an ICE-hole.

EVs need different skills from ICE, hybrid, and PHEV vehicles. These are not difficult but different. With rare exception, a BEV can replace other cars and usually cheaper to operate. But there are areas like Massachusetts and Northern Maine where a hybrid or PHEV looks to be the better answer.

I need a backup car for my Tesla so I can work on it and if necessary, get a tool or parts as needed to complete my self-maintenance and enhancement projects. As backup, purchase price is more important so I'm looking at used PHEVs to natter around town in EV mode yet still strike out if I need to go further.

Bob Wilson