Gen 5 Prius Prime worth over Gen 5 Prius?

Having traded a M3 SR+ and now having a 2023 Prius Prime XSE, I am going to strongly disagree..

See my post here on this forum for more info on why

2023 Prius xle order. Did I get lucky or am I getting yanked around? | PriusChat

 

There is a tax non refundable credit of up to 4000 on many used plug in or ev under 25k selling price. There are state and local tax credits for new and used plug in or ev. Utilities may offer substantial rebates on new and used.
It’s hard to drive by free public chargers watching others charge and you’re burning gas. Been there. Using no gas at all for weeks and charging for free is fun. Teslas do it too. Driving locally you are the same as any ev in a Prime. Is it ultimately worth it paying more up front? Was it worth an extra 5000 or more to get the Prime Limited versus the LE?
Federal tax incentive, only works if you owe the tax. I believe if you have withheld enough tax by the end of the year, no tax incentive, so incentive has to be planned for early enough in the year to get it. Not 100% sure as it wasn’t my situation.

 

incorrect. doesn't matter what is withheld, itis based on total tax liability. iow, if yo make 40k, and paid the fed 10k through the year, and don't owe anymore, and don't get a refund, you qualify

 

In Canada, the rebates can be huge. A PHEV like the Prime gets over 8k off the sticker in some Provinces; the plain hybrid gets zero! When I got my Prime last year, it was cheaper than the hybrid AWD!

 

nice! used to be like that for gen 4 prime here, and major discounts on slow movers

 

Great mileage. What type of gas are you putting in and what part of the Country do you live?

 

As stated, it is applied to to the tax liability. With holdings are merely prepayment of that. When the taxes are filed at the end of the year, the tax credit is applied to the liability before any prepayments. So withholdings through the year will likely get refunded after the credit is applied. Now, you can adjust your withholdings for the year you are buying an EV in order to get the benefit of the credit amount through out the year, instead of waiting until taxes are filed. I'm of the belief that getting a large refund means you gave the government a free loan.

The 'nonrefundable' part of the EV tax credit simply means that you don't a get refund of the portion of the credit in the event your tax liability is less than the amount. There are other tax credits that are refundable, and/or can carry over to following years.

 

When I originally purchased my M3 SR+ (since traded) I got the tax credit. When I filed my taxes for that year I had something like $900 federal tax due. I received $900 of the EV tax credit and no refund whatsoever. So in my case, the EV credit amounted to $900.

I assume many will never benefit from the full EV tax credit amount unless they purchase one at the start of the year and reduce, or eliminate, their federal tax payments for that calendar year.

 

I live in Denver and use regular grade (85 octane here) from Costco or our local grocery chain King Soopers. I've been driving in a way to try not to engage the internal combustion engine as much as possible, and a few trips have yielded pretty amazing mileage:

 

You need an income of about $65k, after deductions, to owe enough tax to take advantage of the entire $7500.

 

Good to know for others who may not. That’s why I added not 100% sure as it isn’t my situation.
My other point was we buy the fancy versions for 5-6k more for the extra features. Plug in is also a feature, costs the factory much more, I’m sure, to make. You like it you buy it.
The government doesn’t want people to substantially over withhold either I don’t think.

 

One thing that irked me was coming off a hill, you would max out the hybrid battery and you'd be forced to use engine braking or real braking or both. I came off a mountain yesterday, 8 miles downhill got my battery percentage from 53% to 79%. That's good for about 15 miles of in city driving at my 6mi/kwh average. Now THAT is freaking satisfying as hell to me.

 

I believe there are fines for doing so.

 

Wow, 8 miles? That is a big decline… aside from the obvious energy gain benefit (fantastic), this would certainly be a risk of brake fading with conventional friction brakes alone.

Of course, that seems like a lot to me, as I have very few mountains near me. Probably less impressive to those in mountainous areas, lol.

 

If you only drive 25-30 miles a day, it is a BEV.

We use our Mazda 6 about 16 miles per day on most days. If the Prime were as big as the Mazda, we'd have one of those instead.

 

And what is that type of driving. That is really fantastic!

 

How did you get such an increase in battery percentage? Is there a setting or adjustment on "braking" or is it just driving in an efficient manner? Prius newbie question, I have never had a hybrid, let alone a PHEV, so am still learning. Thanks

 

Prime is still new to me and I have seen the option for adjusting the strength of braking regen(although I've seen somewhere this setting will only apply if you're in B mode??), but this isn't needed.

Once the car got up to speed and luckily no cars were behind me on this one lane road, I modulated the brakes to where I kept up my speed but never crossing the threshold of maximum regen so I would capture 100% of the available regen that was possible.

Corners were somewhat tight so that's where it was critical to brake early enough to slow down the car without crossing the max regen, and after exiting the corner I would only need to lightly accelerate to get up to speed since I'm already going downhill.

Keep in mind I'm basically either coasting or braking nearly the entire time I'm coming down hill. I knew this was a big mountain that I had to go up and later come down so I made sure to have at about 50% capacity available for the trip down. New prime handled going up like a champ with EV mode down to 53% before switching to HV mode.

If I made this trip in my other car or hybrid, Id be reminiscing about my old '21 Prime the entire time down. Instead I was having the kind of fun I remembered that pushed me to buy the new one.

 

If the op wants to whine about the prime's higher price versus lower epa / ice range compared to the standard hybrid EPA - it's because he doesn't understand the large contingent of plugin owners that have solar. Fully amortized solar plugin drivers are often spending close to zero for gas. Many plug in owners do 95% of their driving as an EV. That means their EPA is much much more cost-effective than if they were merely running as a hybrid.
This phenomena is true regardless of who manufactures the phev.
A hybrid will invariably get better mileage versus a non-hybrid, but a plug-in will invariably be around 2X as efficient with its electric fuel. And if the fuel is free solar? How can you beat that.
The other variable is the cost of electricity for those without solar versus the cost of gasoline in the individual areas. It's simple math as to whether it will work out great for the prospective owners .... or not. Choices are good, right?
.

 

For those who have solar paid off, I often hear that was the best investment they have made. They often state something like "Our electric is free". But, I really don't think it applies to everyone, everywhere, and in every situation. I have searched extensively on the possibility of installing solar panels on our roof for the last 5+ years, but every time I do serious calculations and inquiries, I reach the conclusion that it just makes no financial sense to pay upfront ~$30K (this is with full 30% fed tax credit taken off) for the so-called "free" electricity. Yeah, it may be free from the sun. But it takes 13 years to pay it off if I pay cash. If I finance it, it takes the full 25 years (warranty period of the panel) to pay it off with the current interest rate. (edited from "life of the panel" part to "warranty period")

And even if I can get really "free" electricity, the $5500 price difference is real. If the Gen5 can run 50 miles EV range, that would be equivalent to about 1 gal of gas cost for the HV. Assuming the gas price stays at the current local price of ~$3.50, it takes about 4.3 years to recoup the $5500 price difference. But that is if I drive 50 miles every day, 365 days/year. That is annual 18,250 miles all in 50 miles/day trips. How many people have this type of routine driving habit? I certainly do not. In our household, we currently drive only 9,000 miles annually, and ~60% of that 9,000 total miles are trip distances longer than 100 miles. So, effectively, less than ~3,000 miles annulary can be driven on pure EV. Well, that means even if the electricity is free, I can save only $210 annually by driving Gen5 PP vs regular Gen5. Now, the pay-off period for the $5500 price difference is 26 years. LOL

Yeah, I may be dead by then. Certainly likely to be too old to drive, unless, Gen5 comes with full Self Driving capability like Tesla.