1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Water pump is dying?

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by Legogo, Jun 25, 2023.

  1. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi everyone. Today during the long trip I have noticed that after releasing the gas pedal the engine rpm goes up and only then down. It intended me to connect hybrid assistant and the engine temperature was 96 degrees C, what seems more than normal.
    Outside temperature was around 30 degrees C.
    Also sometimes during the cold start I get P0C73 code. After removal of the code the car operates normally.
    What could be the reason of the overheating?
    Driving report from HA is attached
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,024
    15,616
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    P0C73 concerns the cooling system for the electronics, not for the engine.
     
  3. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    So the topic should be called "both pumps are dying"?)))
     
    Kasra likes this.
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,024
    15,616
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Is there any reason to worry about the engine water pump? 96℃ would not concern me as an engine coolant temperature; it is but 1 Celsius degree above switching on the cooling fans, and well below the temperature to light the overheat light.
     
  5. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    IMG_20230627_154054.jpg IMG_20230627_154141.jpg
    Okay lets go with the inverter pump. Today I got the failure again and same time the pump was working. Rpm was 4000
    Also techstream describes the failure as motor electronics coolant pump
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,024
    15,616
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The screenshot of your P0C73-776 freeze frame doesn't show the inverter cooling system pump RPM. I'm sure it's there, scrolled further down in the freeze frame, I just don't see it in the part you posted.

    It's funny about the fortune cookies for trouble codes. For codes in the P1 range (left up to the manufacturer to define), the bad news is you have to be very careful to look in a repair manual for your own make/model of car, or you could google up a completely wrong meaning for that code for some completely different car. But the good news is, when you find the code details for your car, they're completely specific, because Toyota wrote them.

    For codes in the P0 range, which have standard definitions assigned by SAE, it's kind of the other way around. The good news is, they're safer to google for, because whatever you come up with should still tell you the SAE standard meaning. The bad news is, the fortune cookie (like Motor Electronics Coolant Pump "A" Control Performance) will be something generic that was cooked up at SAE, not something more Prius-specific the way Toyota might have written it if it were up to them.

    [​IMG]

    So you kind of still have to look in a Toyota repair manual to see exactly what Toyota means when a Prius shows the SAE standard Motor Electronics Coolant Pump "A" Control Performance code.

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat

    It turns out a Prius has two electric "motors" (MG1 and MG2) and a box of electronics to power them, and there's one coolant loop that cools the electronics and both motors, and one pump that moves that coolant, and we would ordinarily just call it the inverter cooling pump, but that's what Toyota lined up with the SAE standard Motor Electronics Coolant Pump "A".

    The code can be set if the pump RPM intermittently isn't right, even if it seems ok when you're looking. (That's why I wonder what the RPM was in your P0C73 freeze frame. Also, of course, the target RPM—what the ECU wanted it to be.)

    P0C73.png

    The way the pump is controlled, it has battery voltage available at +BWP, and the Power Management Control ECU sends it a pulse train on IWP where the pulse widths tell it how fast to turn, and its RPM can be read back by the ECU as pulses on NIWP. Old-time readers can recognize that as the same way the engine water pump is controlled (only the engine pump is controlled by the ECM, not by the Power Management Control ECU), so the same principles discussed there apply.

    iwp.png

    I snarfed that diagram from a 2015 Gen 3 liftback repair manual, so you might take the connector/pin numbers with a grain of salt; better to look those up in the wiring diagram for your own car.
     
  7. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    @chapman Just started my car with the techstream and yes, now inverter cooling pump has less rpm than with failure.
    also "coolant heating-last operation" tab differs. With fail it was showing "1" and now it is "0".
    First pair of photos is with failure
    Second pair is with normal operation
    Both screens are done after cold start with 20-30 meters of driving
    failure 1.png failure 2.png normal.png normal2.png
     
  8. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    It's a couple of days without any failures. Seems like the problem is solved.
    I tried to change the coolant in inverter contour. Drained coolant had perfect color but there was a dirt inside the white coolant tank what led me to clean the entire cooling system. After a couple of attempts I noticed some strange water, full of flakes, coming out of the inverter to tank, shown on attached photos. The inverter pump was cleaned separately and installed back.
    7ef1f071-0ca9-4083-a72e-9b89124bfe0a.jpg c8ee4b00-58bf-4fc8-97be-001f359b7995.jpg f3ca7b98-dfe5-41f4-92b0-ad449a2a8a19.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,024
    15,616
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    How regularly has the coolant been changed?

    The coolant contains anticorrosion additives that lose their effectiveness over time. If the coolant gets old enough, it can start corroding the aluminum inside the inverter, making a weird kind of jelly.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    2,5 years ago (32000 miles)
    Should be not bad even for red LLC
     
  11. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    545
    88
    7
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    One
    ''after releasing the gas pedal the engine rpm goes up and only then down''


    That could be that the hybrid battery is hot, and the computer is trying to use it as less as possible, also the computer will use some of the hybrid battery charge by turning the ICE, revving it up when going downhills and coming to a stop, especially when the hybrid battery modules are not doing so good due to the Prius C not being so good at cooling its own hybrid battery.
     
  12. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, thanks, but is there any way to avoid the overheating?
     
  13. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    545
    88
    7
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    One
    Overheating of the battery? you can avoid it by using the A/C as much as you can, maybe get an OBD2 scanner and use it to turn on the fan as i do. The Prius C does not cools the hybrid battery so well on its own even with the A/C on, unless you turn it at full blast then the battery cooling fan will turn on at full blast.
     
  14. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    Guys, today is really hot outside 40C and after trip of 55 kms the mg1 and mg2 heated up to 95C. No fails appeared and the whole trip was under hybrid assistant monitoring. Is it normal temperature or the pump is really dying?
    It raised last 5-7 minutes of the trip when the speed was reduced
     

    Attached Files:

  15. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2021
    1,476
    796
    0
    Location:
    SacTown, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    I would at a minimum, attempt to flush-out the inverter cooling system. You've obviously got some crud in there, that needs to be cleared out. Constant overheating of electronic components will eventually kill them.
    Have you checked out and cleaned your battery cooling system & duct-work?

    Just my 2 cents....
     
  16. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    How battery fan may affect on mg1 mg2?
    Regarding the cooling system - yes, I cleaned it a couple of days ago, it was full of flakes. Now , after cleaning the contour I don't get any obd codes.maybe there is an air in the contour?can it affect as much?
     
  17. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    545
    88
    7
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    One
    You said that the ICE was running and reving up when coming to a stop or going downhill, 3 things can cause that, a hybrid battery that whose modules are old and can not hold charge, hence the ECU uses the stored energy since since the battery can not hold much. Hybrid battery is getting hot and the ECU avoids charging or discharging it as much as possible so it cools down. Hybrid cooling fan is clogged, can not cool the battery.
     
  18. Legogo

    Legogo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2019
    42
    1
    0
    Location:
    Azerbaijan
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry for confusion, hybrid battery is another story and in a few days i think i will check it.
    Now my main concern is about MG1 and MG2 after a trip under hot weather. I think the battery fan has nothing to do with the MG1 and MG2 . Some other forums pointed that the MGs are cooled by the transmission oil, but I don't understand why the temperature started to raise
     
  19. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    545
    88
    7
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    One
    How hot your motor generators got? i think the motor generators on my 2012 Prius C got to 112 degrees C on a long trip with quite a few uphills.
     
  20. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2021
    1,476
    796
    0
    Location:
    SacTown, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Yes, MG1 & MG2 is cooled by the ATF. Control electronics - inverter is cooled by the inverter coolant and that cooling loop.