1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Ignition coil bolts snapped and expanded on bottom---any ideas why?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Zalupix, Jul 31, 2023.

  1. Zalupix

    Zalupix New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II


    This is the case for all four of the bolts. Bottom of the bolt is expanded as if exposed to heat. Middle of the bolt is pinched, threading is askew on the thinnest point. That point is so brittle i snapped two of them in half with my hands, two others snapped by themselves in the holes and I had to get them removed by a body shop. Replaced spark plugs a month or so ago before a road trip, came back from the trip to find this after I noticed misfiring symptoms (probably because the coils were super loose on the two snapped ones). When I replaced the plus the bolts came out and went in fine, I at least didn't notice this problem but I didn't inspect them too closely to be honest. Bolts were retightened to ~13lbs with a torque wrench.

    Leading theories: I found out afterwards thst the torque is close to like 6-7lbs, perhaps I over torqued them? But it's not a radical over torque.

    The spark plugs aren't 100% oem but theyre a different denso plug that fits well and previous threads I read on here and reddit suggested they seemed to work well from other users. I doubt it's thst but maybe?

    On the way back from the road trip my serpantine belt snapped off, didn't notice until I got the red triangle and then immediately pulled off. It didn't throw codes so I Ran the car for 5 min in maintenance mode trying to figure out what happened before I noticed the serpantine belt was missing. Perhaps the overheating engine caused the bolts to expand?

    About half a year ago I was topping off oil and forgot to put the oil cap back on. Proceeded to drive 250 miles through oil country so the increasing oil fumes smell stupidly didn't throw me off. Oil got everywhere and when I replaced the spark plugs a month ago the old ones were covered in a layer of oil, the coil packs were oily, and I even had to wipe the bolt stem/shanks off. Perhaps the oil corroded them, or else it burning off increased the temp the bolts were exposed to?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Zalupix

    Zalupix New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Someone suggested the bolts are potentially torque to yield, is that accurate?
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,080
    1,574
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    So are you going to replace the valve cover or tried it remove the broken pieces?
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,943
    15,563
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    100% overtorque is enough to tell a story in my book.
     
    PriusCamper and Georgina Rudkus like this.
  5. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    3,163
    2,209
    0
    Location:
    Taylors, SC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Yep. They are M6 bolts most likely Toyota 9 grade or industry ISO 8-8. If you tighten them more than 90 degrees after full run down, you are over torquing them; torque wrench or no torque wrench.

    You could replace them with a higher grade ISO 10.9 bolt. They can be had as M6x1.0x30 flange bolts.
     
    #5 Georgina Rudkus, Jul 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
    SFO and PriusCamper like this.
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,092
    4,515
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Kinda like that saying, "when all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." But in this case, "when all you got is a high powered torque wrench them bolts spin real fast past their limit..."
     
    Georgina Rudkus likes this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,531
    38,706
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    These are the wee locator bolts holding down the coils. You could snug those one handed with a screw driver style nut driver. Just use common sense with those.

    torque value may be in attached, likely in inch pounds, which you divide by 12 to get foot pounds.

    you’re not the first to snap these off.

    addendum: yeah, 80 inch/pounds, 80/12 foot/pounds, or 6.7 foot/pounds:

    IMG_1762.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    #7 Mendel Leisk, Aug 1, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2023
  8. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,080
    1,574
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Wth . Seriously we're talking these bolts aren't you just using a nut driver in your hand You're thwacking these things down so hard You're breaking them off maybe you should be bending lacrosse sticks or something I mean a car work may not be suitable for you maybe something along those lines what would give anyone the inclination to even be doing anything like this just the look of the threaded shaft that you're putting into the metal dictates touch the top of the coil add a 16th of a turn if that and leave it alone but hey common isn't so common I guess these days I don't know.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,943
    15,563
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Wee quibble: a torque unit is a length ✕ a force, not a length / a force.

    So, you know you're doing the conversion right when you say;

    (80)(inch ✕ pound) ✕ (1 foot / 12 inch) (one foot is twelve inches, so that's really only multiplying by 1, doesn't change the real value, only the units) and 'inch' top and bottom cancels, leaving you with 6.7 foot ✕ pound.
     
  10. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    3,163
    2,209
    0
    Location:
    Taylors, SC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    1/16 turn is not enough. It will be too loose and back out with heating-cooling cycles and vibration. If you happen to be heavy handed, buy a set of shortie combination wrenches. The 10mm wrench is about 4 inches long. It is hard to over torque with that short lever arm

    Again, a maximum of 90 degrees after full rundown will not overtorque an M6 bolt.
     
  11. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,080
    1,574
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Sounds great mine go in hand tight not trying to kill it If you have to torque a bolt this small we lost the battle oh well.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  12. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,080
    1,574
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    If it was mission critical I would just consult my machinist handbook. This is a non-critical bolt holding down a coil for goodness sakes I mean this is hysterical but yeah good information If you're talking coil hole down bolts on a valve cover yeah.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,531
    38,706
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Exactly. There's been at least two reports here, novice wrenchers torqued those little guys to 80 foot/pounds (sorry Chap).

    Both those instances the heads came right off.
     
  14. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    3,163
    2,209
    0
    Location:
    Taylors, SC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    To me, having been trained in the aircraft and aerospace industry, proper tightening of all fasteners is mission critical.

    Loose fasteners are as bad as torqued to failure ones.
     
  15. Zalupix

    Zalupix New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Got the broken pieces out.

    Hey man, I live and learn, no way to learn if you don't make mistakes. I already had my 10mm bit on my torque wrench, video I was watching incorrectly said torque to 13lbs, I did it. I regularly take my prius on super washboarded fire roads, so bolts coming loose is a concern—I'd rather torque to spec than leave it up to chance. If there is a spec, why wouldn't I use it? Now that I know the correct spec I can torque it down correctly. No need to lose your mind to hysteria over this.

    For what it's worth, I did overtorque, but honestly the more I look at these bolts the more I suspect for whatever reason they're torque to yield bolts, not reusable ones. I did see the other thread of the fellow who snapped these, but he straight up torqued to 80ftlb, which is more than the wheel spec. I'm getting new bolts in tomorrow and correcting my mistake, listening to naysayers and giving up on learning to fix cars over something so small would be idiotic.

    Super cheap harbor freight torque wrench, not radically different from a normal rachet. Not using anything motor powered on these lol

    Anyway, thank y'all who been helpful for confirming my main theory and for giving me the correct spec, much appreciated
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  16. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    3,456
    1,503
    0
    Location:
    NJ-USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    In general, probably not, but it also depends on the length and hardness of the bolt.

    In the end, folk with enough experience (ie have a "torque calibrated" arm) can tighten many fasteners "by feel" and be fine.

    Those with less experience NEED a torque wrench and specifications. Otherwise they have things strip, snap, or otherwise come apart.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    Zalupix likes this.
  17. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    3,456
    1,503
    0
    Location:
    NJ-USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    As others have mentioned, those bolts broke because they were way over torqued. Typical spec for a 6mm bolt is 6-9 ft-lb.

    13 ft-lb is fine for a 8mm fastener (grade 8.8) - which has close to twice the cross section vs 6mm.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,219
    5,903
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The spark plugs aren't 100% oem but theyre a different denso plug that fits well

    Curious about this also. DENSO makes a few different iridium plugs for the car. What model did you use and have you been happy with them?
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,943
    15,563
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Instead of apologizing to me, why not just use one of the accepted, and correct, ways of writing it? You can:

    just put the words together: foot pounds

    use a multiplication dot if you're feeling fancy: foot·pounds

    or a hyphen: foot-pounds (sure, somebody could mistake it for minus, but unit conversions don't work that way, and it's a recognized conventional way of writing the unit).

    When you write it as foot/pounds, which would be a correct spelling of some totally different unit, feet per pound, you could measure thinness of wire that way), it isn't very much skin off my nose as I already know better. It's more of a stumbling block for other readers who might not, and who might pick it up from you and repeat it, or even try to do the math with it. Your apology would be better directed at them.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,531
    38,706
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I've got a similar quibble: people saying "I could care less"; which begs a few questions, whereas the original expression "I couldn't care less", makes sense. But consider:

    When the original expression gets corrupted, but everyone knows what you mean, maybe it's time to let go? ;)