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What a sock-puppet can teach us about satellites.....

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Aug 21, 2023.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I worked with remote sensing a little bit back in the day.

    NOTE!! This is not to be confused with the FBI's remote VIEWING programme!
    Remote Sensing uses a sensor to capture an image. For example, airplanes, satellites, (BALLOONS!) and UAVs have specialized platforms that carry sensors.
    'Space' is the ultimate 'high ground', and there's lots of it out there.
    When we were growing up, they speculated that one would someday be able to read a newspaper or a license plate with a spy satellite.
    Kids - ask your parents what a newspaper is and how we used to read them.

    Well.....as it turns out, clouds happen.
    So does night-time.
    Also, satellites are always moving around up there (out there.)
    RAPIDLY!

    There's a 'yuuge' difference between stuffing people into a can on top of a rocket that looks for all the world like it should be hidden under a bed - and orbiting that same can around the planet atop a much BIGGER rocket.

    One of my You-Tube subs just released a video that's interesting (to me at least) and details some of the challenges of looking down here from up there.
    I thought I'd share it as apolitically as possible in these interesting times.......


     
    #1 ETC(SS), Aug 21, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Ground recon from earth orbit is becoming more valuable for ecology research, but its military importance is the topic here.

    Ground-level imaging in optical wavelengths has resolution of about 5 cm now. That is not secret, but if there are 2-cm birds up there or planned, that would be. Getting ever tighter on fixed objects may not be the most important goal, because they are not the only targets. Things under construction or moving can be important. Repeated imaging is needed, and multiple satellites help. Here I suppose centimeters matter more.

    Imaging at longer infrared wavelengths was a plot element in a Tom Clancy novel and movie. What is actually ‘up there’ in terms of countries and capabilities is secret. But if you want to know where people are, or where internal-combustion-engine vehicles are (or were :) ), this is the way. Especially at night. One needs a different billion(ish) dollar telescope for that.

    Those function where clouds are absent as noted above. Not a problem for longer-wavelength observing, otherwise known as radio. I dare to guess that signals intelligence is actually more important for spying. It is certainly different. The largest ‘orbiting radio telescope’ may have unfolded a 100-meter diameter reflector. Snuffling around today, I see indications that it looked at a different satellite’s radio activity, not at ground based things. Here overall we may suppose that a few big-budget countries can detect radio activity on earth with amazing time, space and wavelength resolutions. But beyond that ???

    ==

    Spy satellite images with about 1-meter resolution from early times are getting declassified. This is of great help to ecology (yeah you guessed I’d circle back) in knowing how extents of ice fields and forests have changed over decades.

    ==

    Did the sock puppet say anything interesting?
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One counter:
    upload_2023-8-22_1-37-19.png

    Another counter:
    upload_2023-8-22_1-38-42.png

    Then there are anti-radiation weapons:
    upload_2023-8-22_1-40-48.png
    Geostationary is distant but not impossible.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Not necessarily.

    Unless you're dealing with US media, there' no such thing as bad data.
    The 'scientific' end of remote sensing is using alllllllllllllll of that data to compile long term area atlasses to study stuff.
    NOT GIGO.
    Maybe DIGO (diamonds in garbage out.)

    Actual mileages WILL vary.

    'Interesting' is in the eye of the beholder.

    VSTOL birds have to land SOMEWHERE.
    Where they land won't be very 'stealthy.'
    SAR (Synthetic-aperture radar) platforms are just the gun sight.
    Putting your scope 22,000 miles away is moderately 'useful.'
    Even at Mach 23, that a fer piece away.

    @ ARM (HARM):
    That's a tactical toy.
    Can't say range mostly because I don't know. Probably less than 1000km.
    THAT's the thing!
    The Pacific is a YUUUGE lake!!!
    The Growlers (The plane that the missile is bolted to) have short legs, and we're fresh out of real tankers (for now!)

    @ Sea Shadow This is a 1980's toy, and you cannot land a 'penguin' (*) on them...at least not more than once.
    (*USAF nickname for the '35 - large flightless bird.)
    USS Zumwalt is a more recent example with two VERY non usable guns, and a good number of missiles. A "land attack destroyer." Preceded by the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. SUCCEEDED by the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.
    Nuff said.
     
    #4 ETC(SS), Aug 22, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2023
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A local story to Huntsville is the alleged loss of "Space Command" the ones who would take down those satellites. Good thing Senator Tuberville is injecting himself into a military he never served in has had an effect.

    BTW, I got Tuberville's response letter Monday. I'll reply to the Senate leaders that there should be a limit on Senatorial holds: (1) applies only to those who come from their States, or (2) a limit on how many, or (3) holds have a time limit of 3-6 months.

    At the same time, put a time limit on how long the Senate has to approve appointments, 3-6 months works for me. Or the time between a Presidential election and taking the office, about 3 months. Failure to vote up or down results in default approval ... like a pocket veto in reverse.

    We used to say in the Marines, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

    Bob Wilson
     
    #5 bwilson4web, Aug 22, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2023
  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Key word:
    In reverse.

    Doesn't the Article Two branch have enough power already??
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Our country has a long history of correcting abuse and abusers. Someone once said, "Americans will always do the right thing after trying everything else."

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In my working career, I helped build the ground station for two Landsat missions, some NASA image processing, and another satellite system. When there were Cubans in Africa, I joked with my late wife that "Spy satellites found the Cubans by their cigar butts. But they shut them down because they could only detect cigar butts."

    There was a rumor that someone tasked a spy satellite to recon the Jonestown murder suicides.

    A Tesla owner, I was amused that some took offense at the cabin camera. Yet so many use laptops with cameras and microphones. The Chinese at one time forbid Teslas from their military bases because of the eight external and one cabin camera ... and microphone.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    As a cell phone owner, I feel the same way.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  10. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    In the 90s, I worked at a law firm in Hong Kong, right next to what was at first the British military base in the centre of town, and which then became the PLA base. It had its own jetty. I had a lovely view from my desk over the army base and the harbour (until a partner realised, and swapped offices with me).

    Anyway, I saw a stealth ship, much like this, pull in to the jetty one day. It left no wake at all. It was a very impressive thing.

    It turns out it was in Hong Kong for testing. In spring, when it's often foggy. In the Pearl River Delta, between Hong Kong, Macau, Zhuhai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou, in some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.

    The Hong Kong-Macau ferry was, at the time, the TurboCat (now I think it's called the TurboJet), a high-speed ferry which carried up to 400 passengers at 45 knots across this shipping lane.

    So the PLA stealth ship went out on exercises, in the fog. And the TurboCat took Hong Kongers to Macau for gambling, in the fog. Possibly, in hindsight, not the best idea.

    And the TurboCat's radar didn't see the PLA stealth ship. Which, I suppose, means that the stealth ship definitely worked. No-one was killed, but there were a few broken bones, and everyone had to get rescued.
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The Sea Shadow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shadow_(IX-529) was a technology demonstrator, floated in the 80's.
    Like the 'hopeless diamond' from the previous decade, it either works....or it doesn't....or (most commonly) the truth is somewhere in-between.
    "That Stealth stuff" really did/does work over unfriendly skies....mostly.
    Recent models like the B-21 raider are somewhat rounder and more haze-grey.

    Shipboard examples, even those copied by the PLAN haven't really proven themselves - YET.
    There ARE some stealth features that are baked into the cake with ship hulls in serial production, but these offer limited benefits.

    The stealthiest ships, since 1775, are those that look like a patch of empty ocean..........;)