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Speed limits don't matter

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Trollbait, Aug 24, 2023.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "Back in July, AAA released the findings of a multi-year study it conducted of several speed limit update projects across the United States. The study included cases where speed limits were both raised and lowered, and touched virtually all road types. .. While crash frequency and severity did correlate with higher speeds, the most statistically reliable trends that emerged had nothing to do with property damage or personal injury. It was enforcement outcomes that were most demonstratively impacted. In other words, when speed limits go up, fewer people get tickets; when they go down, the opposite happens.

    Many weren't happy with AAA's conclusions (or lack thereof) and it precipitated some rather heated social media discussion, ... But those complaining the loudest ... were citing something far more fundamental: physics. And they're not wrong. Energy increases with the square of velocity; the quicker a car moves, the more exponentially dangerous it becomes to crash it, especially into something (or somebody) else. But AAA wasn't performing crash tests in a controlled environment; it was studying the behavior that resulted from changing the rules. "
    Speed limits don't matter | Opinion - Autoblog

    It's an opinion piece(link to news article of the AAA report there) about how when it comes to doing a task, people will go about it in the manner they are comfortable regardless of outside decrees. This is also true for driving. The AAA study showed that traffic just ended up traveling at the 85th percentile(description at link) speed of the road no matter what the posted limit was.

    So if the goal is to truly have traffic move at a certain speed, then actually design the road so that speed is the one most drivers are comfortable driving at that speed. Do the design right, and the road can be safe for everybody using it.
     
  2. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    Many,Many,Many,Many,Many,Many....of todays drivers grew up playing grand theft auto.....And they drive like it. When somebody would pass me going over 100 mph on my commute to the Denver airport from the Springs....I would be shocked and mention it to my wife. After 16 years I stopped telling her because it became over 10 people per trip. Castle Rock Cops pulled people over all the time...they should have bridges of Gold. This week I get to drive in ATL Traffic. Nobody slows down everybody cuts everybody else off. It is a toxic cesspool of self rightousness. Says alot about Americans and our country.:cry:
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unfortunately, not many roads being designed or redesigned around here. can't keep up with potholes, how will we ever redesign roads?
    sidewalks, curbing, property lines, telephone poles, hydrants, and etc.
    easiest and cheapest is cameras and automatic tickets in the mail.
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Lately I'm hoping for a new roundabout every 100', mostly because I'm good at them and my neighbors hate them.
     
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  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ...safely?

    Moving means MOVING.
    Geographically, this means different things in different places.

    If you live in a part of the US where you can stand on a bucket and see the back of your head, then 100MPH isn't an unreasonable speed.
    In BASTAN at 5PM, it's science fiction.

    Speed is only one component in overall traffic.
    The driver that just screeched by you at three digit speeds in the left lane (or the right lane if you drive a Prius or live in FL or TX) is probably already well past CPA and opening rapidly by the time that many people look up from their screens and notice them.

    Roads.
    Weather.
    Traffic Density.
    Auto safety.
    Education.

    Each obviously plays a role in the tapestry of EVERYBODY sharing one system of roads..

    People only regard speed as important because of the fact that you can make a profit from drivers who are exceeding some randomly selected number.
    Many of these same people are horrified at the mere mention of red light and speed cameras, or roadside safety checks.

    If TRAFFIC SAFETY were REALLY the goal they would insist on those measures being implemented FIRST.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Around here NOBODY does legal stops at red lights and stop signs when turning right.
     
  7. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    Yup. Personal Safety is too much work.......which is why HPV has infected like 60 percent of the US population. :(
     
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  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Red light camera.
    Use AI at controlled intersections towards the same end for stop and yield signs.
    In fact?
    It's even easter for stop signs because you don't get the absurd $cience and Data "studies" about yellow light lengths and rear-end collision rates.

    It's very BINARY.
    You either stopped or you didn't.
    Digital is good for that.

    Done!

    Nobody wants to that problem, though.....
    Heck in some parts of the US they don't even want to enforce shoplifting, vagrancy laws, home invasions, durg distribution, or sex trafficking!!!!

    YOU expect them to get all worked up for people who run RED LIGHTS??!!
     
    #8 ETC(SS), Aug 25, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2023
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  9. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    I think they do want to enforce those things and for the most part do. It’s easy to get wrapped up in news stories. Seeing clips and frames meant to tell a story that’s maybe not entirely true.
    As a people we sure watch a lot of tv and have a lot of screen time, so why are we so much in a hurry behind the wheel? Hurry hurry hurry then go play on media. Driving fast usually gains little time, often none.
    People driving fast and hitting the brakes all the time actually slows down the flow of traffic on a freeway. The bigger question is why is driving such a contest?
     
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  10. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    Ain't that the truth? But karma can be a beech. I was just south of Castle Rock heading north and it was raining pretty hard...so I was in the right lane going around 60. A small black sedan (maybe a Honda Civic) flew by us and he must've hydroplaned because he suddenly spun and shot left and crashed into the left barrier...man was it loud!

    Like John Wayne said, "Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    It rains a lot in the deep South.
    Average annual precipitation inland typically ranges from about 100 to 125 centimeters (40 to 50 inches if you live in a developed nation) to over 150 centimeters along the coast (60 inches for first-worlders.)
    The year before last I measured over 100 inches. This year will be somewhat drier because of the shocking new theory that the climate isn't static.
    When it rains?
    It rains HARD!!

    You can always tell when someone is driving who "ain't from 'round here" because the smarter of these are the ones under the overpasses with their flashers on.
    We also routinely pluck drivers from ditches who do not understand how hydroplaning works.
    There's even a non-troversary with lots of blow-hards (yeah, like ME) bowing HARD about how you should - or should not use cruise control in the rain.

    Spoiler Alert:

    You shouldn't, and if somebody has to explain why this is so, then you need to turn on your flashers and find an overpass when you encounter what locals call a 'toad strangler.'
    This is when it's raining about 50-percent more than a 'gully washer.' ;)
    Suit and Tie weather-guessers would say more than an inch per hour.
    Rain Rate Visualizer
    SO....
    The government isn't finished driving up new car prices with mandatory features to beat back the beneficial effects of Darwinism, and thus I fully expect mandatory wiper activated headlamps and rain adaptive CC to be non-optional options very soon. :unsure:

    Until then?
    Go ahead!
    Speed in the rain!!
    Turn off the lights and turn on the Cruise Control!!!

    Used car parts bins don't fill themselves!!!! :ROFLMAO:
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I have to use the weed wacker to trim the rows & rows of weeds growing out of the many many feet of deep/long cracks in the asphalt across our property's street. They were ready for a new slurry coat at least 5 years ago. Not enough money. Yet our legislators have premium cadillac medical plans
    ;)
    .
     
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  13. theory816

    theory816 Junior Member

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    For me, certain road laws are more than a suggestion(such as stop lights) but even then, they can become suggestions. At the end of the day, good driving and being safe resides within the skill and the skull of the individual. Lets say they changed the speed limit on your small front street from 35mph, to 80mph today. Logic dictates that even if the sign says 80mph, your knowledge of driving and the environment overrides the 80mph speed limit change.

    So, dangerous manuevers can be safe, when carried out in safe manner, and safe manuevers can end up being dangerous, when carried out in a dangerous manner.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    At the end of the day, another 120 people are dead, and another 7,000 to 10,000 injured enough to require medical attention. And most derive from willful violation of traffic safety laws or other rules of the road.

    Most people seriously overestimate their driving skills. Too many feel that the laws and rules are for other people, not for themselves. The above quote displays a clear illustration of a big part of the problem.
     
  15. theory816

    theory816 Junior Member

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    What does people overestimating their driving skills have anything to do with what I posted? By your logic, no one should be allowed to use fire to cook their food since "people seriously overestimate their cooking skills".

    Im saying laws are there to keep a general safety level for the public, but at the end of the day, what makes it safe for one person and another IS a matter of opinion. People who hurt others make poor choices. But again, what does that have to do with me?
     
    #15 theory816, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    You wrote that certain laws could become suggestions, did you not?

    I get a very un-safe feeling when I'm in traffic and other drivers start ignoring established traffic rules and make up new ones on the fly. The guy waving at you to encourage you to advance through a left turn despite him having the right-of-way, for example.

    But then, I've been in the back seats of five different cabs/rideshares during 5 different collisions. 5 different drivers, and they were all trying to achieve better results than compliance with "normal traffic laws" would allow.

    Traffic laws shouldn't be thought of as suggestions.
     
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  17. theory816

    theory816 Junior Member

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    You wouldn't light a match in a room full of gun powder right? So what exactly is the issue here? Why is that you can drive 70mph on the highway but would not do so on an inner neighborhood street? Is it the law that dictates that or is it your understanding of the environment? If it is your knowledge that dictates your driving, then it is not dictated by law, in which case - it cannot be anything but a suggestion. But hey, most of the time they are good suggestions, otherwise it would never have gone as far as to become a law.
     
    #17 theory816, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I take my understanding of speed and reaction time and my memory of a given road as suggestions, because I know they're fallible.
     
  19. theory816

    theory816 Junior Member

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    I wouldn't bother driving at all if all those things are so fallible.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Physics?
    Common Sense?
    This is why they generally do not allow pre-teens to drive, own guns, smoke, get tattoos, etc....

    They're called PUBLIC streets for a reason.
    YOU don't own them.
    YOU don't even have a right to drive on them....(sorta.)
    You DO have a right to travel.

    The SUPREMES say:
    “The right of a citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse drawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but a common right which he has under his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."


    This is an Amendment 5 thing, in case your pocket copy of the US Constitution isn't in your pocket.
    The Fifth Amendment breaks down into five rights or protections. The right to a jury trial when you're charged with a crime, is one of these.
    THAT is why you have a right to fight a traffic ticket, in court......for example, if you're cited for driving 70 in a neighborhood.

    Pro Tip:
    Always fight the ticket, UNLESS you're one of those people who are not polite to cops.
    If you're one of those, you might as well pay up - especially if the cop is wearing a camera, or uses an insider code on the ticket to indicate that you were being an A.H.

    It's called DUE PROCESS for a reason, but it pretty much means that here in the real world that driving is a privilege that you enjoy as long as you do not unduly endanger those that you share public roads with.
     
    #20 ETC(SS), Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
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