1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Ioniq 6, EV6, and Model 3 RWD

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I wanted to check the latest Ioniq 6 versus the Kia EV6 review followed by the EPA metrics. My gold standard is the Tesla Model 3 RWD:

    Like many commercial reviews, strong on style and light on engineering, but otherwise a fair comparison.

    So starting with Fueleconomy.gov:
    [​IMG]


    Hummm, the Ioniq 6 shows excellent efficiency better than the Model 3. But the EV6 seems significantly 'out of its depth.' But let's compare their drag force and weight per horse power (HP.)

    Using the EPA Test Car Database, we can plot the drag force as a function of speed:
    [​IMG]
    • Ioniq 6 - lowest drag across both low and high speed range. But the weight/HP ratio makes it the slowest to accelerate.
    • Model 3 - higher drag at lower speeds which is probably due to tires used to handle the higher power (i.e., weight/HP) of the other two. It also has more electrical overhead with dual, high performance controllers sized to process Full Self Driving as well as Autopilot.
    • EV6 - highest drag that rapidly rises above 40 mph and second best weight/HP ratio. It would be better in City than Highway travel.
    Fast DC charging is critical for cross country driving. The Model 3 has the lead with reliable, native, 400 VDC Supercharger access. The Ioniq 6 and EV6 use the unreliable, 400 VDC and rare, 800 VDC, CCS-1 chargers. With extra cost adapters, each can charge at any station but adapters are an emerging technology that has risks.

    I did not include Lucid or Fisker due to their business problems of high cost, low production numbers, and weak sales.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
    sylvaing and hill like this.
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,235
    4,231
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks!
    I am cross-shopping the Ioniq 6 and a Tesla Model 3.
    There is a lot I like about the Ioniq 6, but also a lot I like about the Model 3.

    For me, it may come down to what Tesla offers in the Highland update.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,855
    8,158
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    averaging over 4 miles per kWh is crazy great .... and if that's not exciting enough - right around the corner - the Kia/Hyundai Co will release their '7' model .... an electric SUV. will simply have to make due 'till that sucker's features/epa are revealed. With its higher ground clearance it might just be a real showstopper.
    .
     
  4. FalconSeven

    FalconSeven Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2023
    135
    99
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This is good, except sloppily done.

    I would have looked at the long range EV6, in order to do an apples to apples comparison.

    Also, a quick Google search shows that the Ioniq 6 has 245/40 R20 tires whereas the Tesla has 236/35. In other words, the Hyundai has bigger tires and yet is more efficient.

    Where the Ioniq probably has the best advantage is ride. I still can't get over how poorly the M3 drives compared to other EVs.
     
  5. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    378
    338
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    oh ! tell me more about the ride between these two cars
     
  6. FalconSeven

    FalconSeven Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2023
    135
    99
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    When we were shopping for our new cars, we test drove the Bolt SUV, EV6, M3, and Kona EV. We ended up with a ID.4 and Niro EV.

    We didn't drive the Ioniq 6, but it's the same platform as an EV6 just 'softer', where the Kia is tuned to be sportier. I'd bet they're comparable.

    The M3 drove like a GM sports car from the 80s, where handling meant a crashy suspension that transmits all road imperfections to your spine. Just not good at all.
     
    Louis19 likes this.
  7. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    378
    338
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    THANKS , this kind of confirm what I am being told about M3 even Model Y , where I live the roads are pretty imperfect :confused:
     
    #7 Louis19, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,393
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i test drove the m3 and found it to be a very smooth, quiet, comfortable ride.

    and that's coming from a 68 year old who loves smooth, quiet and comfortable.

    i haven't driven any other ev's.

    tesla:

    supercharger network

    $7,500. fed tax credit

    'nuff said
     
    Louis19 likes this.
  9. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    378
    338
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    what model of m3 did you test drive , RWD or AWD
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,393
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    RWD, base model. that's what i would have purchased if i couldn't get a bolt.

    it could also be that my laid back driving style would make most any car feel good, but not the prius!

    i was concerned about all the negative comments about the stiff suspension, and low profile tires. but i didn't notice either, and neither did mrs. b.
    maybe my problem is that i've been a prius for 20 years. noisy, poor seats and uncomfortable ride on poor pavement
     
    Louis19 likes this.
  11. FalconSeven

    FalconSeven Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2023
    135
    99
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    RWD. Maybe AWD is better.
     
    Louis19 likes this.
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,903
    16,128
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Unreliable eh? Hmm, is that why I always see Teslas charging at the Electrify Canada stations even though there are three SuCs (one V2 and two V3s nearby?)

    One time an older Model S took up the 350kW spot.

    Maybe now that Tesla switched to per kWh billing, Tesla owners will go back to the SuC.


    The Ioniq 6 runs on Pirelli P Zero ELECT tyres so they will have lower RR (up to 10% more range per Pirelli's website) which may explain the better low speed drag?

    Edit: Ugh... there are errors in that video lol.
     
    #12 Tideland Prius, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,393
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    must be a us thing
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    My methodology:
    1. Verify the EVs of interest are in Fueleconomy.gov.
    2. Download the model year Test Car Database file.
    3. Cut and paste rows in working sheet with the header and all rows for the interesting models. Since I own a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus, I keep the 'Standard RWD' model.
    4. Column cut to retain:
      1. Model
      2. Weight
      3. Power
      4. Test identifier
      5. Roll down coefficients, A, B, and C
    5. Add a column with drag force at 63 mph
    6. Add a column with either weight/HP or HP/weight, preferred
    7. Sort to keep the same EPA test identifier and cut the others
    8. Select a row of interest for each model. For example I choose the lowest drag force
    At this point, you have all of the useful data but it needs to transformed so it can be plotted:
    1. Copy and paste special with 'transpose' into a new sheet so each row has become a column.
    2. Add a column of speeds from 30-80 mph, a valid roll down speed range.
    3. Use formulas to create the drag force at each speed for each car.
    4. Add a row blank row.
    5. Add a performance row at 85 mph with either k*(HP/weight) or k*(weight/HP) for power to weight ratio.
    6. Plot the mph vs drag force for all models.
    7. Adjust the "k" to put the values in the middle range of the drag forces.
    8. Modify the graph lines to use a 'blank' for 'missing data'.
    9. Other chart esthetics like color and line types to better show the interesting data.
    This approach allows comparing efficiency between vehicles or even within trims. Being data driven, it works across the speed range without having to obtain sample cars.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    You really have to find trustable reviewers which are sad to say, a small percentage. I like TFL (The Fast Lane) team and Edmunds head-to-head reviews. The other reviewers post and edit from their point of view which is too often, not mine.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #15 bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,903
    16,128
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I mean, this video literally uses other YouTube videos (it lists the source at the bottom left) and is just reading off the spec sheet.
     
    bisco likes this.
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Youtube plagerists!

    I once had a device driver 'design document' plagiarized and am still pissed. Not at the employee given the task but the manager who directed it. The same manager who sat on my original when I sent it to her. I had extracted the driver design from the comments of the code so after integration and test, both were very accurate.

    When the plagiarized document showed up in my 'in box' for review, instant white-hot anger followed by telling my supervisor 'I have to leave early.' The next day, I came in much more mellow and wrote:

    This is the best design document I have ever seen. It could not have been any more perfect if I'd written it myself.

    Nothing more was ever said but there were a few smirks around the office.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,235
    4,231
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    The Ioniq 6 we test drove last week was incredibly smooth. It paid for that in a kind of 'slushy' feel in turns, but overall, it was a very nice ride.
    The Model 3 I owned a few years ago was a much sportier suspension. The responsiveness was phenomenal and the car took curves as if it were on rails :)
    That said, you felt any cracks in the road or such. It really comes down to to personal preference. I strongly suggest test driving each.

    For me, the navigation may be the deciding factor. The Ioniq 6 navigation feels like it is 15 years old and is only about 4 inches tall. I have to give it another try so I can focus on the Navigation controls and capabilities.
     
    sylvaing and Louis19 like this.