Winter tires?

Comes down to specifics. Snow tires may have been nice for the few snow storms I've had to drive in, but that seems to be once a season. Roads are mostly cleared within a day around here. Just need to be careful of any snow or ice patches.

Now, compared to Canada and Northern Europe, the lower 48 states of the US only have mild winters. Roads covered with snow or ice for weeks at the time result in a different solution.

 

Drive system ain't going to matter if you can't actually get any traction. Or when you're trying to stop.

Worrying about your drive system and not the tyres is like worrying about your amplifier but not the speakers. Tyres and speakers are by far where there's the most difference in behaviour.

And for tyres it's a huge deal because there are trade-offs. There's no perfect single tyre (whereas there could be a perfect speaker, maybe) - you can have a winter tyre which is bad in summer, a summer tyre which is bad in winter, or an all-season which is okay in each.

In some regions an all-season tyre would be fine. Not remotely viable in northern Finland. Even a normal winter tyre doesn't cut it - you need a Nordic friction tyre at minimum, and I wouldn't settle for that. You need studded for when you're driving on polished ice, which happens quite a lot.

Anyway, here in Finland, winter tyres are a legal requirement (which technically means the 3-peak mountain snowflake symbol.) A few all-season tyres have that, such as the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Maybe okay for southerners who just drive around central Helsinki, but not out in the wilderness.

Maybe in Kansas all-season tyres are fine. Your winters don't sound that bad.

 

Seriously?

Why You Should Be Driving on Winter/Snow Tires - Consumer Reports

It's time to end the annual debate about whether to install winter/snow tires on your car. If you live in an area where snow is a constant throughout winter, having dedicated winter/snow tires can improve your safety, according to a number of studies and surveys, as well Consumer Reports' own tests.


More than half of Canadian drivers install winter/snow tires on their cars, and they see a real benefit. There are fewer winter-related accidents, injuries, and deaths when cars are required to be fitted with winter/snow tires, a Quebec-based study found.

And the most recent survey report from the Tire and Rubber Association of Canada suggests that two-thirds of Canadian drivers are using winter/snow tires (which are required in some provinces).

In the U.S., the use of winter/snow tires is much lower among snow-belt drivers. Just two in five American motorists use winter/snow tires, according to a new survey commissioned by Michelin.


The Michelin survey, which focused on the U.S., also found:

• 67 percent of respondents thought they didn't need winter tires because they had all-season tires. Consumer Reports' testing clearly shows that most winter/snow tires have better snow traction than the average all-season tires. As their name suggests, winter/snow tires are specially made to handle the cold, slippery challenges that winter can bring.
• 53 percent thought winter/snow tires weren't needed if they had an all-wheel-drive vehicle. But Consumer Reports subscribers consider winter/snow tires to be beneficial whether they have a two-wheel-drive or an all-wheel-drive car or SUV, according to a recent CR tire survey.
• Michelin found that three out of four drivers are nervous about driving in snow. Younger drivers are more concerned than older drivers, perhaps due to inexperience.
• The survey showed that a vast majority of drivers avoid, limit, or change plans because they don't want to drive in wintry weather. Drivers are worried about the "other guy" on the road, losing control, or getting stuck. Ultimately, staying off the road is the best way to improve safety in foul weather.
• Most drivers using winter/snow tires are more confident in driving in snow and less concerned about other drivers and the loss of traction.

Source: CR 2016 Annual Auto Survey
If you don't need to drive in wintry weather and can wait until the roads are cleared, then driving on all-season tires might be all you need. If you'll be driving in snow, the answer is clear: Put winter/snow tires on your car now.

 

Yeah, that question is a Pandora’s box.

In addition to the other responses, my view is simple: if your area experiences regular slow or ice, why would you not want to take every measure you can to protect your safety (and wallet)? Obviously grip and braking is improved, and saving a few inches or feet could make the difference between expensive repairs or a near miss.

Also, while the snow tires are on the car (presumably on a second set of rims), your “summer” tires are not being used, while saving your nice alloys from harsh road salt, like is used in Canada. The only real additional cost is the second set of rims and buying your next set of tires in advance (since your all-seasons will last 2x as long with half the use), and then seasonal swaps, unless you do it yourself, like I do (it’s very easy to do).

Some insurance companies also give a small discount if you have snow tires, and some parts of the country (like Quebec) *mandate* snow tires in the winter, so you will flat out get a ticket if you don’t have them on between Dec 1 to Mar 15… So there’s that. (And honestly, I am surprised Ontario hasn’t followed suit, yet…)

In summary, spending a couple hundred dollars to buy some extra rims and an advance purchase of your next set of rubber when you first acquire the vehicle, along with a little effort/cost for seasonal swaps, and you can ensure you have the safety equipment possible when doing one of the most dangerous activities in our daily lives... Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Regarding front wheel drive, AWD, winter tires: none of them will help if you're in deep enough snow, and that happens faster with a low slung vehicle, Prius for example. Or a steep enough hill...

 

At least the Gen 5 isn't as low as it used to be. It's actually the highest clearance Prius ever (153mm on the 19" tyres), from all the numbers I can glean.

Gen 4 was the lowest Prius (123-130mm), but on the other hand its nose and bum weren't too low. Gen 1-3 were all around 140mm, but Gen 3 had the lowest approach angle, so most likely to scrape the nose on speed bumps.

Indeed, some people think the Gen 5 is far too high:

 

Whelp! Thanks for all the passionate responses! We do get horrifically cold winters in Kansas, plenty of ice, but usually not a massive amount of accumulated snow. We have pretty capable salt trucks and snow plows that do a good job. But there's always danger of black ice, etc. I've never used snow tires and likely never will unless I guess I'm in an area that mandates them. If I lived in the far north, I might change my tune, but I suspect those cities do a good job of plowing snow also.

I've driven on a TON of snowy, icy roads. Only once did I feel completely out of control and nervous - and it was due to an unexpected ice storm with ill-prepared roads. Everybody just kind of crawled on the streets at 5MPH slipping and sliding. No tire was going to change that situation (unless perhaps you're talking about chains/studs which would have been impractical because the streets were clean before the ice storm). We probably get more ice/sleet storms in Kansas, than we do snow. 110F in the summer, -30F windchill in the winter. Fatal allergies in the spring and fall. Such a lovely, lovely, place to live.

 

I guess because I don't sense the danger and I'm a very safe driver. We also have VERY flat elevations here. When visiting Kansas City, I often wonder how they get around when the streets are icy.

I'm guessing it wouldn't be a few hundred dollars. How much would a second set of G5 Prius wheels cost? Then a set of snow tires and then the cost of switching them out and rebalancing, THEN storing every year.

Must be a regional thing. I just always roll my eyes when people talk snow tires. I even roll my eyes when people say they will NEVER buy a non-AWD car again. Maybe I just have a problem with rolling my eyes...

 

Only places I've heard of snow tires being mandatory in the continental US were for the mountain passes of the Rockies. I'm sure other places they are a good idea. It is just that the roads here are clear and dry for most of the winter. The times I had issues with snow on the roads, that weren't connected to it being too deep for a sedan, were because I should have replaced the all season tires before winter began.

The problems I regularly expect are with the alley my driveway is off of. It might get plowed days after a storm. Pretty sure I would still need to dig out, even with snow tires.

 

Canadian customers:

Costco has $150 off a set of alloy wheels, $50 off a set of steel wheels today (Sat Sept 9 2023) only

https://www.c-wheels.ca/

 

Are these officially allowed? And if not is Finland less strict in this regard? At least in Germany I will probably get some trouble when not using officially allowed sizes. Some wider tires would be pretty cool though...

 

My dealer was suggesting up to 225-wide tyres. And I think he's getting guidance from Toyota Finland, so it's approved by corporate, at least.

Finland seems pretty lax on size. Maybe because they're more worried about the type of tyre than the size - making sure everyone changes their tyres twice a year is their main concern. And there are absolutely no 195-wide studded tyres for 17" or 19" wheels.

Nokian Tyres' Finnish site says:

215/55 R17 is a good diameter at least, being a teeny bit bigger than the 195/60 R17, and hence closer to the 195/50 R19.

 

I think German laws are relatively strict, at least comparing to North America. Here I suspect if you match or exceed the the tire specifications, and keep the outside diameter roughly the same, you're ok with authorities. On the other hand, depending on where you're buying your tires, you may "meet resistance"; Costco for one will only install specified tires.

 

The site threepiece.us shows Michelin x-Ice 195/50-R19 in stock. Looks legitimate as far as I can tell. Phone number is in Southern California.

 

Thanks for this, I will probably order some before end of the day.

Has anyone confirmed 100% that the 16x6.5 steel rims will fit on the ‘23 Prius XSE with 19” OEM rims? The parts guy at the Toyota dealer is “pretty confident” they will fit, but could not guarantee. Has anyone done a test fit?

I am inclined to go with the 16” rims with 205/65R16 over the 17” with 195/70R17 (which is the stock size on the SE), since it is closer in diameter, less expensive, and more tire options on the market since it is a more common size (I believe Camry uses this size).

Also of interest, the Toyota dealer parts guy told me that apparently Michelin is going to release snow tires (X-Ice, I presume?) in 195/70R17 in November… a bit late IMO, but better late than never.

 

No, but the spare wheel is 16" regardless of fitted wheel size in Japan. Which strongly suggests no problem with a full-width 16" rim.

You mean 195/60R17? The X-Ice Snow is already available in Europe; they just need to send it over.

MICHELIN X-ICE SNOW - Auto rengas | Michelinin Suomi verkkosivut

 

Huh, they also make a CrossClimate 2 in 215/50R19 for Europe. Not my first choice for size, but worth saving the info away as a backup.

 

215/50R19 is quite readily available here in all tyre types including studded because the Volkswagen ID.3 uses it. It would be the only 19" studded option afaik.

It's a bit big IMO for the Prius, being +3% over the 195/50R19 diameter. Finland wouldn't care, but wouldn't be legal in France.

The X-Ice Snow looks like it's coming in 195/50R19 - you can see it's got its European performance label in May. Not shown as available on the market yet though.

The full list of 195/50R19 tyres shown in the EU database:

Bridgestone Ecopia EP510 (summer, C/B/A) [efficiency/wet grip/noise]
Michelin X-Ice Snow (Nordic, C/E/A)
Yokohama ADVAN dB V552 (summer, C/A/A)
Yokohama BluEarth-GT AE51 (summer, C/A/B)
Yokohama BluEarth-4S AW21 (all-season, D/B/B)
Yokohama BluEarth*WINTER V906 (winter, D/B/B)
Yokohama iceGUARD iG53 (Nordic, D/E/B)

As Michelin seem to be in the lead getting Prius sizes, I did ask them about the X-Ice North studded in Prius sizes, but they had no information. (And studded tyres don't get those EU labels, so no clues to be gained there...)

 

Oops - yes, you are right. Got mixed up with these sizes.

Btw, it seems we can no longer edit past posts after a short period of time?

 

Good catch, the spare, even in it's absence, provides info: