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Getting tired of Tesla and Elon hate

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Sep 14, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So recently, there were reports that the Universal Bank of Switzerland (UBS) had done a tear down analysis of the BYD Seal and compared it to the Tesla Model 3. Then I went to find the technical data and found <crickets>. No technical data but vague references to unknown UBS sources. No data is BS.

    Then there were reports Elon Musk had turned off Starlink to abort a 'secret' Ukrainian attack on Russian ships. But digging into these reports, a 2022 date is cited and was it really "secret"?

    The Anti Defamation League criticizes Twitter (aka., X) for anti-semitic posts by trash users and blames Elon Musk and Twitter. As is their right, they may have tried to organize a boycott and Elon calls them out for it.

    I've wasted time hunting down the facts and data in these cases but I don't like reacting to repeated cries of "WOLF!" Like the boy who cried "WOLF," I'm becoming numb to these sources who are rapidly losing credibility with me.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    Elon didn't turn off Statlink in Ukraine. He didn't allow it to be turned on in the region where they were about to send drones against a fleet of boats. He didn't want Starlink to be weaponized.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Personally, I think Starlink has made GPS and other satellite navigation systems redundant. The constellation is resistant to pretty much any anti-satellite efforts and the low orbits minimize transmission delays. Sure there are Doppler effects but these can be easily handled.

    What does Ukraine say, 3:07 AM EDT, Sun September 10, 2023:

    Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite systems are being used by Ukrainian forces on all front lines in the war with Russia, the country’s spy chief has said.

    “They have proven themselves on the front lines. You can say what you want about whether [Starlink systems] are good or bad, but facts are facts. Absolutely all front lines are using them,” Kyrylo Budanov, head of the Main Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate, said Saturday, according to Interfax Ukraine.

    Budanov was speaking at the annual Yalta European Strategy meeting organized by the Victor Pinchuk Foundation.

    The spy chief also gave a positive account of the difference Starlink is making in the war.

    “They have played and continue to play a significant role, because so many systems use the antennas, use the Starlink systems themselves, for communications, for drone transmissions, especially in terms of a remote command post and so on.”

    Budanov also said Starlink coverage “did not work for some time” in Russian-occupied Crimea, without elaborating.

    “I can absolutely confirm that Starlink systems did not work for a certain period of time near Crimea. We immediately realized that there was simply no coverage there. That’s probably all I can tell you,” Budanov said.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Threatening to sue is a bit beyond calling the ADL out. But that isn't the real issue with Musk's behavior in that case. He claims to be a free speech advocate, and his policies to support that at Twitter is why there has been an up tic in distasteful posts there. The ADL practices their free speech by calling for a boycott, and he talks of taking them to court. Musk is a hypocrite on free speech.

    Munro doesn't hand out their reports for free. Why is it a surprise that UBS doesn't either? They don't mention Tesla in their press release. "Compared with mass EVs from legacy OEMs, BYD Seal is the better and much cheaper car, thanks to high vertical integration that leverages BYD's cost lead in battery cells, vehicle integration, powertrain and electronics modules." They go on to mention legacy OEMs being hampered by being stuck in JVs in China. Which is something Tesla managed to avoid when they entered to market there. UBS seems to not include Tesla as a legacy car manufacturer. I don't think anyone does.
    BYD Teardown | UBS Global

    Leaks of the report have them making a comparison of the Seal to the Model 3 which boils down to it being a comparable car for a lower price. Considering timing of gathering data and writing the report, this is likely based off the older Model 3 UBS torn down previously. They gave Tesla kudos in that release. UBS saying BYD having an advantage in the market isn't because of the technical specs of the product, and they do have some, but the structure of their company and China's battery and EV industry. Others making it about the Model 3 vs the Seal are just after clicks.
    New Tesla Model 3 Emerges In Regulatory Filing In China
    BYD Introduces Seal With Attractive Pricing And Structural Battery

    The Ukraine/Starlink bit is because a new book on Musk is coming out. Expect news pieces on other released tidbits from that.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't bite on any of the wall street hype. if musk x's something, it's there for anyone to see. the people he associates with are a measure of the man
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Let's go down the list:
    1. The threat of suing proceeded Alex Jones, Rudy Guliani, and Donald Trump being successfully sued for defamation. The "Anti-Defamation League" officers are facing a similar challenge or they could just apologize and stop calling Musk an anti-semite. They can still pursue their Twitter "X" boycott but accuse the posters!
    2. Munro makes money from selling their reports and YouTubes with abridged summaries of what they did. UBS has yet to publish anything like Munro Associates. Even their press release lacks any form of 'engineering analysis.'
    3. I just checked and the Seal is not in the EPA database. The Ioniq 6 is and I've already verified it should have similar performance to the previous Model 3. Furthermore, there is a newer Model 3 (3.5) but it is not in the EPA database. "Seal" reports are like TV advertisements and just as credible.
    4. Starlink and Ukrainian 'report' is already being debunked with a 'clarification' by the author and Miusk pointing out no USA government official called him in the middle of the night demanding Starlink access in Crimea.
    This is why I am getting TIRED of half truths, rumors, and factually wrong accusations against Elon Musk. Get some facts and data and leave personal angst at the door.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I did not get any value from pre-Musk Twitter but the price was right, nothing.

    Post Musk, I tried the $8/mo. and found I was not getting any value from Twitter. Changing the name did not improve the content.

    So I dropped it. I'm not boycotting but can't afford to pay for something with no value to me.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    1. Did the ADL actually call Musk antisemitic? That's what his tweets claimed. Or are they being just critical of what is going on with the trend with some postings at Twitter/X, and Musk is taking it personally?
    2. UBS sells reports. The reported comments about Tesla vs BYD came from sources that had access to the paid for report. That said, UBS is a financial company, and that is what their reports focus on. The car tear downs are about whether the company statements about costs are true.
    3. The Seal is for sale in the two biggest EV markets; China and Europe. UBS's recent report on BYD and the general state of China EV companies included analysis of it. Wanting to sell their report, their own release was vague on details. It was others posting comments from that. I highly believe it was form before the new Model 3, which I think China got first.
    4. I was already aware. Just pointing out there was going to be more for you to get upset about.
    I replied because you had called out UBS for doing so when they hadn't. Their private report included discussion on the Seal vs Model 3, but it sounds like they also covers other brands and models in the report.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We can agree to disagree on many points. However, if the lawsuit occurs, there will be depositions and testimony under oath.

    I am not a lawyer but suspect the critical evidence will be any previous Twitter/X customers who report the ADL told them Musk or Twitter/X is anti-semitic. But there is an out.

    If ADL show the advertisers the "anti-semitic" posts on Twitter/X, that is not defamation. It may seem like a fine line but it has to do with whether the customers were persuaded just by ADL or did ADL enable them to see the facts and data. It would be OK for the ADL to say "because of these Twitter/X posts, we are boycotting advertisers on Twitter/X."

    If the ADL stayed within the facts and data and did not claim Musk or Twitter/X is anti-semitic, GOOD. Sometimes a lawsuit is needed to separate the BS from the facts and data.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was hoping to avoid this:

    Arriving Monday
    Track package

    upload_2023-9-14_18-56-14.png
    Elon Musk
    Isaacson, Walter
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $24.48
    Condition: New​

    It'll take a couple of days to digest and then 'we can chat.' Only I'll be able to cite chapter and verse.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    this much i believe, tesla makes great cars and they are continually improving. they have a charging network that may never be equalled.
    musk is a genius, and also a head case, like most geniuses. that doesn't mean he's always right, but he's right more than your average bear.
    he takes a lot of heat from the left because of his right wing views.
    i'm more interested in objective criticism
    i don't care what he does or did with twitter, and i don't care what celebrities are offended with handling of the company.
    but the criticism will surely never end, he's a target for many different factions and many different reasons.
    if it bothered him, he'd be less public, so it must flow off like duck from a waters back
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Excellent interview of the author:


    I've had the pleasure of working with very bright people who had a vision beyond the ordinary. Sad to say, I have seen their vision crushed by the mundane. So I once dreamed for working for Steve Jobs and certainly would work for Elon in a heartbeat. But I also realize some people can not stand someone like Elon.

    I'm not interested in changing how others feel about Elon. But I have a hard time seeing lies and rumors of lies spread by those who should know better.

    Elon is not perfect but he is pretty good for humanity ... even his critics.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    You’re trying to get a new seal for the Model 3, and the Byd one is the same??
    If I was named Hunter I would be tired of my giant picture in back of the House Committee leader from the New York Post of all places. I can’t be amazed enough someone in Congress is doing such a thing to someone.
    Maybe it’s too much info, in the old days we didn’t get much except in the newspaper or the news on AM radio going to work. And it was more like news. This guy did that. That guy did this. Not so much conniving and influencing.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A new seal:
    upload_2023-9-15_6-46-57.png w

    Sorry, I don't know how to 'house train' a seal. Worse, the salt water tank would add too much weight to my Model 3 and cause handling problems. Then there is the fish expense.

    Bob Wilson
     

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  16. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Not fair to the seal anyway, but the intention is nice. Never noticed their fingers and toes, how beautiful is that, amazing adaptation.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    jobs received similar criticism, mostly post mortem though
     
  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    From what I understand, Tesla was quite a number as well.
    Genius typically incorporates some aspects of insanity as well.

    Add to that, anyone that changes the status quo, gets blowback. The bigger the change, the bigger the blowback.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i typically read apple news every night. 90%+ of the tesla articles are written by wall street rags.
    they're either buying or selling. the healines are hype, and the articles are laughable.
    but people believe what they want to believe, always have and always will.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    To do 'genius', you have to ignore common wisdom while pursuing your new understanding. Sad to say, many don't like to be ignored and take offense.

    I'm no genius but remember when working on something new to never tell anyone about it until it was ready to share. So I often worked 48 hour weeks to explore obscure and interesting things. At the right time, I would surprise others with 'something I've been working on.'

    GAWD, I hope I never crushed anyone's spirit of initiative like so many tried on me!

    Bob Wilson