What do you think of ICE vs Hybrids?

I realize that cars have gotten better, but I still think of 100k as "high miles" no matter what factory it originally rolled out of.

I spent lots of years dealing with the ups and mostly downs of high miles cars.

Bought my last two with 87 and 3,950 miles (respectively) on them for a reason. Harder to pay for, but much easier to get along with overall.

 

Ya, well, not everyone has that type of budget.

No longer is there a car for everyone. I used to laugh at people who bought new cars since I could take an old beater, and as needed drop in a new engine, a new transmission, new suspention and brakes, and up with basically a new car for less cash while those that bought new ended up with a used car that cost more.

 

Used hybrids are not good for those on a tight budget and especially for those who use their car for work like delivery drivers.

With that said, a new Corolla hybrid is affordable with decent credit. Then you save the $1200 over the next 3/36. Peace of mind is worth the cost.

Corolla in the wild this afternoon. Pretty close in size to the 300,000 mile Prius v.

 

Gosh, I'm amazed at how many Gen 1 and 2 Priis I still see out there zooming around! I always wonder if they are on their first or 2nd or 3rd HV battery pack.
I agree that used hybrids, even Toyota's, can turn into money-pits for the new owner, especially if they weren't maintained well by the previous owner.

 

I think I'll just forget having a car and just walk, thanks I can't afford a new Corolla. They are way too expensive. Apparently the majority of American's can't afford a new car either.

If I need a car again I'm going back to some old car for less than a couple grand that I can rebuild the engine and transmission on for also under a couple grand.

 

Let family and friends and co-workers know whenever you are in the market for a good used cars. Lots of folks really hate the hassle of trading in cars or posting and selling them so are eager to sell them to someone they know...and you can get the maintenance and repair history of the car from them, too. (I've even seen people just gift cars to folks who are in need...some pretty amazing people out there!)

 

There are some good used cars. It takes more work to find them, but can be worth the effort.

 

MC series Hyundai Accent. Cheap to buy, cheap to fix. And really not bad to drive.

The two most common problems are overdrive going bad in the automatic (there is a kit to fix the root cause) and owners not keeping up with timing belts.

 

I drove ICE from 1970 to 2008, so I am somewhat familiar with them. My Ford Falcon, Mazda 808 Mizer, Mazda GLC, Ford Escort, Toyota Corolla All-Trac were all the most fuel efficient station wagon I could buy.

In 2009, my wife convinced me my gear would fit in a Prius, and in 2012 I bought a bigger Prius v wagon. About a 15 MPG jump. The 2009 had 120,000 miles when a semi ran a red light. I still drive the 2012 and have 140,000 miles with routine maintenance.

The next car I buy will plug in, I think that will be another 15 MPG jump for my driving style.

 

So are those old hybrid packs in a local land fill? I have a shovel and they are worth their weight in nickel.

A past owner of a Gen 1 and Gen 3:

• Gen 1 (2003 sedan) - had weak terminal seals and internal resistance. After passing 100,000 miles, I bought a rebuilt pack, $1,600, and installed it myself. Having learned about the heat problem, it was easy to avoid while maintaining 52 MPG and no measurable battery degradation. That car went to +260,000 miles before the inaccessible brake booster made repair impractical. The rebuilt pack used Gen 2 battery modules with stronger terminals and lower internal resistance.
• Gen 3 (2010 hatchback) - these battery modules had even stronger terminals and lower internal resistance. They were much better able to handle high temperatures. No evidence of battery degradation based on my OBD and benchmarks. Sold it when I got my first BMW i3-REx, 2014 model year.

If you choose to believe the NiMH batteries wear out ... go with God. Other than excessive heat that can easily be avoided by efficient driving (THE SPEED LIMIT!), they don't wear out. In fact, they avoid the built-in, SEI layer problem of LiON batteries like I expected from my two current EVs:

• -9% battery capacity - 116,000 mi, 2019 Tesla Model 3
• -4% battery capacity - 59,600 mi, 2017 BMW i3-REx

LiON chemistries form a solid electrolyte interface (SEI) that over time, locks up a very small fraction of the lithium ions passing between the anode and cathode. Built-in to the chemistry, my Tesla battery degradation has been slower than Tesla added SuperChargers so my cross-country trips have not suffered. Originally 240 mi range, it is down to 215 mi. But I am also tuning my Tesla to regain range ... using Prius techniques.

Bob Wilson