Are short errands "bad" in electric mode?

In a word, no. (to both)

Enjoy this grand benefit of driving electric.

 

It doesn't matter.

For 6 years, we exploited what Prius Prime could do. From our house, we can see the grocery store. It's just a few blocks away and it has several free level-2 chargers. So, making runs over there for coffee or just a needed grocery item or two happens on a regular basis... all using only electricity. It's awesome. We purchase fresh meat, fruit & vegetables for immediate consumption. Eliminating waste (no unplanned leftovers) and getting exactly what we want ends up being a savings... without any wear & tear on the gas engine or exhaust system.

There is also the benefit for us of promoting the level-2 chargers. Countless times at the grocery store, passers-by have stopped to ask about charging. It is a great opportunity to educate the ordinary consumers.

 

I'd guess that combining errands in a way that reduces miles, is still beneficial in terms of reducing total annual miles driven, and total energy use. Maybe traffic congestion too.

But the biggies on ICE vehicles, the fuel consumption and mechanical wear penalties of needless cold starts, should be gone.

 

If I want to better understand level 2 charging, where do you suggest I read? I am getting a Gen 5 Prius because it’s the most practical due to my not having charging capabilities at my apartment and the only ones I see on charging maps are for Tesla’s and/or just for customers of upscale hotels. I guessing in about 5 yrs I will regret not getting the Prime. The apartment complex owners most likely won’t be providing charges unless they are funded with no out of pocket cost. Super low budget.

Between the extra cost of the Prime and the challenges with finding chargers I’m assuming I’d drive myself nuts searching. I live in a state with one of the highest electricity rates. Plus wasting electricity and gas are both things I do my best to avoid.

 

There really isn't much to convey when comes to understanding the AC charging options available at home.

Level-1 is the simple 120-volt connection, just a standard household outlet that will deliver enough electricity to fully recharge a PHEV overnight... about 8 hours for Prius Prime and 10 hours for RAV4 Prime. If you try to maintain a BEV with it, plugging in whenever you possibly can is a habit you'll need to follow for covering most driving.

Level-2 is useful for a PHEV, but not necessary. It's what you'll depend upon for convenient BEV ownership. Simply plugging in every day for overnight recharge will enable leaving your home every morning with a full battery (7.2 kW * 8 hours @ 3.5 mi/kWh = 201 miles). It requires a 240-volt connection. That often means running a new electricity line for your garage/carpark, but usually comes with a rebate & discount from your electricity provider.

Whether or not a plug-in vehicle purchase includes an EVSE (the device for plugging in) and if it supports more than just 120 volts will vary. There is no particular standard or practice currently. In fact, both power input & output vary based upon the device itself and the vehicle. Also, note that the better EVSE provide a Wi-Fi interface for configuring usage and monitoring status.

That covers the basics.

 

I am not sure why you are asking this. No, you should use the BEV mode for short trips, not the HEV mode. Short trips are bad for the ICE in the HEV mode but not in the BEV mode, as the ICE is obviously not used in the BEV mode.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I’m also trying to understand the chargers on the road. Can a Prime owner currently use a Tesla charging station? You need an upgraded charging cable? I’m just picturing only being able to charge sporadically maybe a 1/2 to 1 hour at a time a few times a week max. Thanks

 

I tried reworking post #8 using common words, plus an edit suggestion.

I am not sure why you are asking this. No, you should use just the battery for short trips, not the engine . Short trips are bad for the engine but not when just using the battery, as the engine is obviously not used when just using the battery.

 

The short answer is no.

DC charging is an entirely different beast. Tesla, Electrify America, Blink, EVgo, etc. all deliver power bypassing the vehicle's onboard hardware, using their own large stand-alone device for AC to DC conversion. So rather than your simple EVSE (which is nothing but an adapter to connect), you get the faster & larger current when plugged into one of those stations. But to accept that, the vehicle needs a large battery-pack. Most PHEV are too small to benefit, hence usually not including a port for DC charging.

In Japan, Prius Prime offers the slowest (and now discontinued) of the DC ports, the CHAdeMO type. In Europe, their CCS2 type is not available. In North America, the CCS1 type is not available, nor the propriety NACS (Tesla) type. To take advantage of DC charging, you need a BEV.

 

If you can't recharge at home you might want to consider that the actual time spent charging is not necessarily the total time you'll need. Even for the significantly smaller battery used in the Prime.

I went to a local Target store the other day. When I parked I noticed a Tesla that was parked a few rows away because it was perpendicular to the normal spaces and blocking their use. Just seemed odd at the time. When I came out the Tesla was still there and two other EVs were lined up behind it. At that point I realized that they were waiting in line at a recharge station.

I was in the store for a long time - about an hour and 15 minutes - and the Tesla was still waiting in line when I drove by the scene on my way out. I have no idea how long it had been there before I arrived. Add that to the time needed to recharge. No thanks.

It's been over a month since I filled up my car so I'll be needing a fill up soon. It's possible that the total time needed to refuel my Prius for a year might be less than it takes for a BEV to recharge once. Apparently, those owners don't consider their time to be particularly valuable.

 

I am somewhat surprised by the categorical "no need" responses. My initial short segment trips in EV mode are very difficult to achieve good EV rates, but I have noticed that my total EV rate does get better with the number of short trips which leads me to believe later errands are benefitting from stringing them together. It could be that the more errands I string together, the longer between stops becomes which will result in better rates.

Multi-stop route planning and optimization was considered "AI" in the 1980s. I was tasked with using an "A-star" algorithm to optimise the order when varying costs (e.g. EV rate varies with distance/speed, distance between stops varies with order visited), so I am not totally convinced that "it no longer matters" for EV mode. Clearly ICE engine warming is a big factor in short vs multiple short trips. There may still be some benefit to combining multiple short trips from a total energy expenditure view, and perhaps even EV mode rate optimization.

Yes, especially if you can park in a garage for short stops. If on the first trip the car interior is cooled somewhat, and then parked in covered parking it will revert to the ambient temperature slower, or even parked in the sun, begins warming from a lower temperature so it will need less AC on the second segment (if the stop was short.)

 

EV rate?

I assume you are referring to mi/kWh efficiency. Naturally, that will be improved as the entire system warms up. But with short trips, the difference would be neglible.

 

Very good point. The only charging station available at the other end my 45 min commute is near a university. There is apparently a student parked there all day long. Even if there were multiple chargers they would probably never be available. I have time but not much money. What you described at Target would drive me nuts. Thanks!

 

Can you explain how the first 2.4mi segment shows 3.1 mi/kWh, then after the next 1.8m segment the total rate has climbed to 3.7, and after the 2.1 mi return to the community shows 4.1 mi/kWh for the total (car is keeping the average) rate since reset at the start? (all segments reach a top speed of 45 mph between stop lights or between stops)

Something not negligible is making sequential short trips, with 10-15 minute stops each have better rate than the prior.

 

As already mentioned, it is just warm-up of the various components & battery.

Measuring the kWh difference, you'll see the quantity doesn't actually amount to much. Other factors, like speed & heater, could potentially have more of an impact.

The point is you're doing well by taking the time to monitor that data. It can provide very useful insight. Kudos!

 

best place to learn about remote charging is a non tesla ev chat room.
for instance, over on the bolt.org chat where i've been hanging out, people talk about their experiences charging on the road, the different companies, types of chargers and etc.
it's fairly complicated and a steep learning curve, but for local phev driving, all you need is to find the websites and apps that tell you where chargers are, if they are working, and if they are in use.

 

Thanks. I’ve looked at a couple of the apps and my area is very limited. I just need to get the next Prius that comes in. Overall it will be less stress. I don’t want to wait another 6 months to a year. When gas prices sky rocket I will have to deal with it and drive less. : }

 

The 'no need' responses are in response to the maintenance question. Short trips on an engine lead to more wear as the oil spends more time below warmed up viscosity, and ends up with more water in it. That's part of why short trips count as severe service for maintenance schedules.

The EV drivetrain and battery still benefit from warming up for efficiency. They don't require reaching as high as temperatures for that, and even when inefficient, it is still better than the engine.

So for the OP's question, the practice of grouping short trip errands together can be beneficial with an EV, but it is no longer a need as with an ICE as the negatives of not doing it are much less severe.