Featured I don't want an EV. I want an affordable plug-in hybrid that doesn't look stupid. Rocket science?

I wish people would stop saying that EV's are exactly like ICEV's, because there's a HUGE difference from even an ICEV to another ICEV.

Old aircooled VW? Engine blows, you buy a piston kit, redo the valves and throw in a set of bearings, and for under $250 your blown engine is nearly as good as new.

Older Japanese car? Engine blows and you throw in a JDM engine for under $2,000.

Some new car, ICE or EV? The ICE engine or transmission blows and you're some $10,000 in for a new engine or transmission. On an EV, and the battery goes, then you're some $20,000 in for a new battery.

THE BIG QUESTION IS: If a person is looking for an AFFORDABLE CAR, what car should he get? What would you recommend? What would you get in that person's situation?

 

Defining "AFFORDABLE" is the problem. We really need to know the requirements:

• Home charging PASS/FAIL
• Daily miles.
• Overnight trip miles.
• Number of seats.
• Local gas rates.
• Home electric rate $/kWh.
• Commercial cost for changing oil and filters.
• Self maintenance:
  • Air tires and window washing fluid
  • Oil and filter changes
  • Mechanics tools and jack stands
• Residual value:
  • New with warranty
  • Used insignificant warranty
  • Used until 'the wheels fall off'

There are other, less frequent, requirements like towing, audio, and 'eye candy.'

Bob Wilson

 

Hyundai Accent MC series. Find one that has not suffered a broken timing belt... put a new belt on it right away, and then enjoy it. Not expensive to buy, easy to work on, easy to modernize for navigation and apps. Entirely reasonable FWD subcompact.

The 4th generation models are probably even better, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I know the 3rd generation cars are a great value.

 

I went by something like that when I got the Leaf. And that didn't turn out like I had expected.

 

Cheapest car I ever owned was the Model Y I bought in 2020.
That really doesn’t count though as the used car market was unique when I sold it for more than I paid for it.

 

what people? who said that?

 

i considered a used ev this summer, and a few places agreed to let me have thecar for the day so i could test the range.
but in the end, they were still as much or more than the bolt after tax credits, and no one would budge on price.

 

ICEV, you mean a hybrid?

 

Those that compare EV car problems as risks that can happen in "any used car" or that compare an expensive engine or transmission failure in one car as being the same as an expensive battery failure in an EV car.

Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle.

 

Reminds me of my first generation, Prius Prime, experience.

In my case, a 2014 BMW i3-REx was my first 72 mi, EV with a Range Extender (REx) engine-generator. The REx made it possible to safely travel long distances and deal with the crappy charging network back in 2016. It was so successful that I bought a 2017 BMW i3-REx in August and already have added ~6,000 mi.

Bob Wilson

 

I think you’re looking at it from the wrong angle.
For most people, when a major system needs repair, it’s a very expensive proposition, no matter the type of energy propelling the vehicle,
For you personally, the equation is different because you have knowledge and experience repairing certain types of systems.
But there are people here who could repair your old Prius in a couple of days.
And there are people who can repair ev’s as well, and that number will continue to grow.

 

So if you discard the oddball value inversion, what came in second place?

 

As bisco explained, for many people they are the same. While the dollar amounts for the repair may be different, they are high enough for most people to consider just replacing the car instead of repairing it, no matter the drive train.

Another way they are similar is that the need for such repairs isn't common. A battery replacement could be more common now, but that was true of engine and transmissions years ago. Their reliability improved to the point that AAMCO no longer focuses just on transmissions. Battery reliability will also improve with time.

 

That's just like me. I can do brake and suspension works or around the engine but anything requiring to work under the car or lift the engine, nope, not for me. So when my 2013 Tucson engine broke down in 2021 and the engine work was as expensive as what the vehicle was worth, I sold it to a junk yard and bought my Model 3.

 

I sense that part of what @Isaac Zachary misses in EVs is the degree of rebuildability. Take one that's worn out and used up, apply some labor and precious few bucks and have a renewed machine that can work again.

Except we can't really do that with EV batteries, and they represent an outsides portion of the total value of the car.

 

Isn't it odd that EV's with their focus on being greener and better for the earth haven't been designed for modular complete battery replacement when the existing battery is degraded?

Wonder if the thought process was that by the time the battery is degraded enough to matter the car will be ready for the trash heap?

Even with that in mind wouldn't it be a good idea to have the ability to easily separate the battery from the vehicle for recycle stream?

Seems good engineering could make short work of this by thoughtful design.

 

Another way in which they are similar is that when you hear of a certain car failing and costing a lot to repair at such and such mileage, it makes you want to take that particular vehicle of such mileage off of your potential cars to buy list, especially when there's no clear explination what caused the failure and how a person can avoid it.

Cars in general are becoming less rebuildable. The engine in my Prius is not rebuildable, I can't just take it out, hone the cylinders, slap on some new rings and call it good. I have to buy a whole new engine block (or used but in good condition).

This is a risk car buyers have to take into account. It's not just a blanket "all cars can fail and cost too much to fix so buy whatever" type of situation. What can a person afford? What can they risk to lose? What reputation does a certain car at X mileage have?

For an example, if someone can get a good deal on their insurance (unlike me) and has a $15,000 or so budget, they could get a 10 or 12-year-old Tesla Model 3 for around that price. That's the only EV they could get for that price right now in the USA. But how would that compare to a $15,000 to $17,000 Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc.? What about a brand new $17,000 Nissan Versa with a stick shift? What if the person keeps the car 5 years? What would be the odds of something drastic happening?

 

Probably my ‘76 Chevy Monza. Cost me $600, lasted one year.
Pain in the @$$, cost way too much to run, spark plug replacement required you to partially pull the engine, but it was dirt cheap to start with.

 

That is a big issue with structural batteries. Likely have to scrap the car if it dies, though it should have meant a lower purchase price for the car.

I suspect the non structural ones can be removed with a couple transmission jacks if one without access to a lift really wanted too.

Car manufacturers are designing in terms of 150k mile lifespans. If someone is fine with reduced performance from wear of other parts, they could be fine with the reduced battery capacity at that point.

Modular adds cost, weight, and takes up more space. The move to structural packs is to reduce those. Same reason why modern engine bays are packed tight instead of being able to carry a cooler between the grill and radiator.

And isn't like other cars are guaranteed to be easy to work with. The aforementioned Monza isn't the only model to require partial engine removal to just swap plugs.

 

Nice!

I once got a Volvo 240 in trade for a case of beer.

Two days later I traded it to somebody else for a case of better beer. Never actually laid a finger on the car.