Featured Dead “robots” pack the Chicago Supercharger stations

Finding a battery that works in all conditions is very difficult, and quite probably, impossible.

Yes, I'd probably want to try out a Tesla as-is in the cold before modifying it. If I had decided to keep the Nissan Leaf I would have tried to modify it, as it's battery heating system wasn't enough to cope with the cold here.

 

Having just an air flow is what hurts the Leaf. The Prime can deal with it since its battery is small compared to full EV and it doesn't allow for fast charging (outside Japan).

 

Maybe an interesting article on possible countermeasures to the videos in the original post?

EVs work fine in the cold in Norway. Here’s how they do it (fastcompany.com)

 

Gorkhan's side is... biased to the extreme.

Here's my EV ownership perspective.

• I do have to plan my longer trips out before I leave. Luckily I've never run into a situation where I haven't had a charger available.
• Cold weather hurts... but it also hurts a ICE vehicle.
• I don't worry about oil changes.
• I will likely never have to pay for brakes.
• I love waking up every morning to a full battery.
• I've learned how to pry a frozen charge door open.
• I never have to add time to my regular commute to "stop for gas".

 

Just dawned on me ... perhaps the "dead robots" question needs to be reframed.
What's the ratio of Dead lead acid in deep Sub-Zero temps versus Electric cars. The question is like electric car fires. When you look at per million miles the electric cars catch on fire way less frequently. I wonder if it's the same with the deep freeze gasser vs EV issue.

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Just put it this way, AAA and CAA are not extremely busy in extreme cold because of EVs can't start...

 

Energy density near parity between NCM and LFP and cheaper:

ONE Aries II LFP Battery Almost Hits Energy Density Parity With NCM

It really sounds like LFP is the best transition from ICE to EV in the near term.

More LFP real world data still needed. But charging NCM in frigid temps sounds like it will only reduce lifespan of the cells or even increase the risk of fire hazard from faster degradation. These packs go for $20k-$30k

LFP's long life cycle batteries will probably outlast the life of the car. Increasing resale value with low to no fire risks.

Tesla will likely have to eventually switch all NCM packs to LFP when parity is reached. Its only cheaper and better for the environment. Every used Tesla with NCM can have a newer and longer heartbeat once owners can swap to LFP at parity.

 

Amazing that ONE Aries manufacturing is located in Michigan where it was -20F last week.

 

Lead acid starting batteries don't die from sub-zero temps. If charged up they can survive -50 °F just fine. When they get to the point they should be replaced you will notice the lack of cranking amps in the cold. The comparison isn't a great one because if you have an old lead acid battery it's considered a wear item that needs to be replaced and doesn't cost much more than a couple hundred dollars to get you going again for the next 5 years or so. You're not going to want to replace the Li-ion battery in your EV just because it dies in the cold now are you?

 

Lead acid Replacement cost versus unschooled EV drivers that are ill prepared in freezing weather is not what the OP is about.
That said, we replaced both of our cars in 2018 .... so at 6+ years of age - we are a tad behind in pricing replacements our 12V aux batteries for our 2 plugins.
Perfect Segway to the issue that seems to be difficult to understand. Many times batteries continue to do the job even though it may have only 60% of its capacity left. It wouldn't matter if a lead acid battery can do the trick even-at 100° below zero - because the dynamics are, as soon as you start using lead acid, month after month it's losing that brand new specific gravity. On top of that, like most batteries, they self discharge albeit slower then many other chemistries.
Your lead acid will do a fine job if it still has 75% of its brand new capacity AND you don't store them months & months without a battery tender AND then expect them to come back to life in a frigid winter. That's why many people often fail to change them out - because they worked last time. On top of that - if your car has just been sitting for weeks, you factor that self discharge into the mix.
Here's a visual for those that find the principles hard to grasp;

View attachment 250990

we killed our 4yr-old pricey auxiliary motorhome deep cycle batteries last winter because we didn't take into account how much they would self discharge over 4 months - coupled with probably only 70% of their original capacity/gravity .... & several days in the -20's / -30's.
They were so dead come spring time that the tow truck's jump start attempt couldn't even bring the dome light back to life.
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I've been having problems with the brand new 12V discharging on the Prius. It discharged and then froze and swelled up. I thawed it and then charged it. I now have it installed but with a battery cut off swtich so I disconnect it until I need to start the Prius.

A bit more on topic, how many EV's have lead acid batteries anyway? My Nissan Leaf had one.

 

ev-1?

 

I'd say most use a 12V one for a 'starter'. Some will also maintain it to some degree from the grid or traction battery.

Tesla might have moved away from lead-acid.

 

They have and also moved away from 12V. Their Lithium low voltage batteries are 16V to except for the Cybertruck which is 48V.

 

Why 16V? Is there a technical reason in the car, like cause of higher standby losses, or was it simply easier to package lithium cells to 16V than try to get 12V?

 

As an experiment, I placed a thermometer in our garage last night and woke up to temperatures outside of 28 degrees. The garage was 22 degrees warmer. Two typical windows in the garage, large garage door. Brick and drywall, I doubt the walls were ever insulated.

 

Maybe it depends on the cell type and what they are defining as 16V

Typical lithium ion cells have a max voltage of around 4V (actually 4.2V) when "full." 4V x 4 cells in series would be 16V maximum voltage (more like 14.6 nominal).

But 3 cells in series wouldn't be quite enough to match the voltage of a typical 12V system, 4V x 3 cells = 12V maximum voltage (or 12.6V max if you charge to 4.2V each cell).

I wonder what kind of "16V" batteries they use on their LFP cars.

 

Here is a pretty good description of the issue.
It is from a 3rd party, but he seems very knowledgeable.

 

That Weber tutorial was very comprehensive. It does raise the question though if your 16 volt lithium AUX battery dies, then the standard 12-volt jump setup may not do the trick, leaving you with an alternate jump method. Just like people who can't charge their Tesla in Sub-Zero temperatures, I bet many folks driving around don't know this tesla jump technique either. Reminded me of our Falcon Wing doors on model x. If you lose power, you better darn well know how the alternate door opening method works.
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