Potentially Reckless, unethical, incomplete, false and self-serving advice from my Toyota Dealership

So we have an Op who bought a high mile “one owner” gen3 previously operated in a remote Arkansas location with unknown history due to small shop maintenance.

The Op authorized $1889 worth of routine maintenance and still had a late stage hg failure two months later.

Given most gen3 hg failures start six months or earlier with occasional rattling and no coolant loss or contamination, the original owner or his shop 90% used sealant in the cooling system. The car ran well for two months after the op bought it.

The op then buys a quality rebuilt engine for $3600 and has it shipped to his Toyota dealer. The Op witnessed the beginning of the engine removal and came back in a day or two and the install was done for $3036.

So within two or three months of ownership we have the purchase price, maybe $10,000 (not disclosed), full maintenance for $1889, rebuilt engine for $3600 and a Toyota dealer install of $3036. Perhaps before the title and license showed up. $8525 in addition to the purchase price.

I would be angry as well. At the seller, the dealer and myself.

 

And Toyota doesn't want to talk about it.

 

oh mendel, they issued a tsb in europe. isn't that enough for the poor beleaguered company?

 

Way back in 2014 we got our warranty extension notice related to EGR, with the consoling sentence:

"While the majority of vehicles will not experience..."

Underlined and italisized just like that.

 

The "..." above is standing in for the next two words, "this condition".

How many here remember what "this condition" means, in the text of warranty enhancement notification ZF3?

 

2010-12 sticking egr valve which cleaned or replaced the valve and updated the ecu. The roughness was nothing compared to a hg rattle sounding like a broken rod to the uninitiated. Car care nut did a video on it a year or so ago.

 

My satisfaction with Carfax reports isn't at issue here.

My own selection criteria for used cars has never led me to an engine replacement.

Good luck with your situation!

 

key points for me:
11 year old vehicle
220,000 miles.

Prius are great cars - we sold our 2008 Prius at 12 years old and 160,000 miles I liked the car, still got over 50 mpg.
I had done all my own maintenance on that vehicle since we bought it new - including wheel bearings, ABS actuator etc.
Still I began to get an uneasy feeling when my wife or youngest child would take it on a trip of any length.
Our second vehicle was a 16 year old trusty Sienna Van with 150,000 miles, very reliable but by being a cheapskate and always keeping vehicles for 10 years or more I felt I had put my family behind the 8 ball in terms of vehicle reliability and safety features with these two older workhorse vehicles.
I was playing Wheel of Fortune with potential vehicle problems even though I had kept them both in excellent shape.
Felt it wasn't if I was going to have a vehicle problem, it was when one of them might break down.

 

I think there’s two issues:

1. “low tension” piston ring’s propensity to clog and start burning oil.

2. New and apparently untested EGR system’s propensity to clog with carbon, causing reduced and unbalanced exhaust gas distribution to the cylinders.

While #1 may increase #2, I don’t see them being in lock-step. I’ve got zero drop in oil level on the dipstick so far (just went by 100k kms, not a lot), but in my 2 EGR cleanings, in particular the first around 70k kms, carbon build-up was indeed happening.

it’s notable too, Tampa Hybrids had a fourth Gen owner request an EGR cleaning. The car had over 300k miles. There was next to no carbon. 4th Gen EGR has fundamental revisions, and the shortcomings of 3rd Gen EGR likely motivated those revisions.

 

First and most importantly sorry about your loss and sincerely hope time heals some of your families grief.

In your case it’s 90% since your resulting failure was extreme with coolant in the oil. This requires much longer time from onset as the typical gen3 hg failure is identified by severe “metallic” rattling long before your time frame. Usually six months to a year ahead of your late stage hg failure.

Sealant can and will mask a Prius hg failure allowing prior owners to sell with an undiagnosable hg leak.

My point here is service advisers are not mechanics, they are commissioned salesmen or women. This is widely known as a fact with occasional exceptions. Particularly on a complex hybrid.

A dealer is no longer the best place from a diagnostic, cost or expertise standpoint. You have discovered this the hard way.

At least you ended up with a quality rebuild rather than a used engine. On that point you have won.

Yes but the 2010-2012 had control software that was improved for later years. Your car can be updated with the egr “calibration” firmware if it is not already.

Unfortunately Priuschat expertise is not admissible in court. So your best path forward is to learn about potential issues and be ready when needed. Brake boosters and inverters come to mind. Part of that readiness is to find a qualified independent hybrid mechanic. Use them for the small jobs to establish trust and availability when you really need them.

 

There, that's the pure distillate. The best possible take-away from this thread. Respect!

 

... not only are they idiots? They're compulsive liars; scoundrels. Lack of character.

It's not just a changing of the guard. This new generation of automotive technician, service advisors: apathetic, low empathy parts changers; no sense of mechanical sympathy; poor critical thinking skills.

Aloof, clumsy, propensity to lie to win arguments? Integrity, social responsibility is not high on their totem pole of virtue.

Once upon a time, those of us who owned vintage Toyotas were considered royalty, at our local Toyota service department. I own a very rare, vintage Toyota. Mint condition. Many of its parts, irreplaceable. Old guard Toyota people had thought to place an entry, into Toyota's nationwide service database, no matter where I take it, an advisory pops up in every service department, nationwide: "... THIS VEHICLE IS NEVER TO BE PARKED IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT!"

This reactionary new generation of young people, this kind of thing only serves, to strengthen their resolve, to do otherwise.

Having its cruise control module replaced at the local Toyota Dealership, a few years ago, staring from the freeway overpass, down at the service lot behind the dealership, and there it was, my vintage AW11, parked indifferently, in direct sunlight! Pulled out my handheld, standing on that bridge, I placed a call to the punk service writer, inquiring as to exactly where he had it parked?

"Oh, absolutely, sir! We've it parked in shade, as indicated requested!" no compunction whatsoever, lying straight through his teeth. Called to account, advising him otherwise? "... I'm so sorry, sir! We'll get right on it. We'll move it, right away! Yes-sir-reee!"

Lip-service. An hour, standing on that bridge -- that little twerp didn't lift a finger.

I circled around, drove into the restricted service area, drove it home off the lot with a spare key, backed it into its stall, in my garage, booted my browser, began the search in earnest, for a reputable independent repair shop.

Once a major point of contention with respect to provenance and pedigree, an exclusively dealer serviced vehicle, is long since no longer something to brag about, if you own a Toyota. Such is the extent of Toyota's deterioration, in service and product quality, Toyota dealerships don't touch my two Toyotas - not with a 10 foot pole.

Parts, only. I have not since returned to any Toyota dealership, for service. Don't think I'd ever buy a new one --


Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

 

Now that we know about Priuschat pundits, what do you think about the extremely wealthy independently owned Toyota dealership owners?