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Critical Thinking 101.....

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Jan 30, 2024.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    [​IMG]

    The now infamous picture of a FOB in Jordan.
    The al-Tanf military outpost in southern Syria is supported by this installation.
    If you know why, it's because you WANT to know why, because MSM ain't sayin'.

    People who work with overheads and know a thing or two about a thing or two might notice a few things are missing from this site. You would need a little experience to detect the absence of a C-RAM (counter rocket and mortar) system used to detect and/or destroy incoming rockets, artillery, and mortar rounds in the air before they hit their ground targets, or simply provide early warning for other flying hazards.
    Also, other emitters and receivers might also be a little tough to spot.
    I was wondering about the absence of something else.
    Like, maybe...... a runway?
    If we're to believe that the Iranians, or even worse - a bunch of 10th century religious zealots successfully used a trick that's been around since airplanes were made out of cloth and wire (follow a friendly plane on it's way home) then where was the US drone going to land?

    MQ-9s require a mile-long runway, more or less.
    I'm told by my brethren in blue that in some cases you can do it in 3,000 in some instances.
    We have smaller drones but they would not be in any way confused even with the 200-mph lawnmower drone that the Iranians used in this attack.
    Those are big enough for a skin-paint - and anything we have that's big enough for that has a transponder to prevent an attack that was easily countered 100 years ago.

    If the story is true, then some General (or Admiral) needs to leave their stars on civilian's desk in the Pentagon and call their relief.
    THAT's WHY we have civilian control of the military on free soil.

    We're supposed to have something else too.....like maybe a fourth estate that is educated enough to ask some questions????
    Or motivated to???
     
    #1 ETC(SS), Jan 30, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2024
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Maybe if the head military dude hadn't kept it a secret that he was going to be unavailable while laid up in a hospital for a protracted amount of time - things might have been different? and why do we need to be over there anyways?
    .
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Mostly in Syria because somebody drew a red line once upon a time.........
    The Base in Jordan supports Al Tanf - which is a part of the deconfliction zone in Syria.
    I'm told we park helos in Jordan because the base in Syria has been attacked a whole bunch of times and helos are fraggle.
    but of course......the current regime is uncomfortable bragging about how many boots we have on the ground in that part of the world because, you know.......'forever wars.'


    The building in Jordan that was struck was not the helo pads nor the admin buildings, and the building that was targeted.....WAS hit.
    Specifically.

    The Iranians have a proven ability with visual terminal guidance.
    Even their lawn-mower drones ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Critical Thinking 101 left the Country about 15-yrs ago. We are now in the Anti-Lincloln Age, whereas Abe said *not* everything you read on the Internet is true. Now we know clandestine UFO's are everywhere.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Highly desirable, yes, but is that really essential?

    Google Maps does show a highway next to it. Is there much traffic out there, compared to, say, Wyoming?

    Who needs runways? Military lands planes on state highways during exercise

    Highway, turned runway: U.S. Air Force crews land on Wyoming highways | Local News | wyomingnews.com

    Air Forces Turn to Highways to Keep Operating When Bases Get Destroyed


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    #5 fuzzy1, Jan 30, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2024
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The highway in question is the M2, another kind of 'Damascus' road.
    More heavily traveled than you might think, and you will remember perhaps from your travels that those desert highways are driven enthusiastically by the locals. Not quite the place you want to try to do a mile long rollout after touching down, to say nothing of re-fueling and re-arming which is the whole point of landing in the first place.

    Remember also that aircraft without transponders are supposed to be much MUCH more interesting if detected.
    SO if the base photo is out of date and there's a shiny new 10,000' runway that was just built by the reserve engineering folks - then the régime is not lying AND criminally incompetent - just criminally incompetent.

    Much like the people who are supposed to be watching them and asking questions on our behalf.
    My company-issued PC will not allow access to the (rolling stone?) article.
    I guess one opinion article from a sketch source slagging another opinion article from a sketch source is good entertainment......

    I used to only browse FNS and CNN to compare the differences in coverage, but lately FNS' stories are all behind a paywall. I guess if you're comforted by the fact that your preferred media source is.....better? different? than FNS, then all is well.

    I was once fanged for comparing MSM with Helen Keller.
    I now merely point out that MSM is....sensory deprived.
    The Keller outrage may not have been as misplaced as I originally thought - despite her advantaged antebellum upbringing and Eddison-like post mortem character rehabilitation.
    Ms Keller was at least curious about the world around her.

    Note to self:
    Read one of her books.
    (Recommendations?)
     
    #7 ETC(SS), Jan 30, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2024
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Some of the U.S. pictures betray roadblocks to stop the locals as needed.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    What about the MQ-8 helicopter drones, or similar? The satellite views clearly show parked choppers of some sort.

    Northrop Grumman MQ-8 Fire Scout - Wikipedia

    Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout - Wikipedia

    It looks to me that M2, Damascus to Baghdad, goes through al-Tanf a dozen miles north, across the border in Syria, crossing the Syria-Iraq border well beyond the NE corner of Jordon.

    Google Maps' roadmap doesn't even show the highway paved road alongside T22, let alone name it. One needs to go the photo view to discover it. It clearly isn't the main road from Amman to Baghdad either.

    During our Israel-Jordon trip, we did get to Amman briefly, but only as an alternate because the road to Kerak Castle was still washed out from a storm a few days earlier. The same storm that caused flash flooding through Petra just before we visited there (the 2018 flood, not the 2022 flood).
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The handout picture was modified, thank goodness, as are the other publically available snaps, but the helos look like 'snakes' to me (AH-1s.) They're different in form and function than the FireScout, which is a Navy toy. It would look like 100 other Bell products from above.
    The Army and the Navy do play well together out on the sharp end, but not back in DC - otherwise the three KIA's in Jourdan would have been wearing Seabee Combat Warfare pins (called 'Bugs"- or 'skews' pins when I worked with them.)

    Any self-respecting Army ossifer would rather wear a blue jersey during the Army-Navy game than use an MQ8 out in the desert - but the real issue here is the fact that BOTH of these platforms use COTS transponders AND (most importantly!!!!!) IFF.

    Outside of Hollywood, you don't just 'borrow' an Army uniform and walk into a FOB.
    When I wore Blue, about 150 years ago, we used to run what Bubbleheads call a 'Zulu Five Oscar' drill.
    This is a drill where a properly uniformed for-real sailor tried to get on a boat that they are not authorized to be on.
    I've been on both sides of these drills.
    I was lucky.
    I got to tape a "BOOM! YOU'RE DEAD!!!" envelope on the skipper's stateroom door, and I've busted all of the attempted Z50 attempts on my boat while I was duty Chief.

    There are other things that go on in warm and sandy places that we do AND SHOULD DO to prevent attacks such as the one that perpetrated against the base in Jordan.
    They're not always sufficient, because the enemy always gets to vote.
    WE do not always thwart rocket attacks on our bases because (especially 5 years ago!) we're not always ABLE to - but we ARE expected to TRY!

    Remember a recent story where the US gave Iran forewarning of a bombing of Soleimani's burial site?
    That probably really happened, and no.....it's not because Biden hates America or whatever you hear on FNS.
    There's a lot more communication that happens BETWEEN us and the Iranians and the Rooskies than people appreciate.

    News Flash:
    The IRANIANS gave us forewarning of their reprisal attack on the al-Asad air base in January of 2020.
    File:Ayn al-Asad airbase attack603dc40485f540048b53c3da.webmhd.webm - Wikipedia

    We knew the attack was inbound, and we knew we couldn't get AAW assets in place in time to prevent the attack.
    SO....we cleared the runways and put our troops in shelters.
    AND filmed the attack..... (ever wonder WHY?)

    Trump didn't get slagged because of the dozen or so TBIs and zero KIAs that resulted from this attack OR because we didn't have a C-RAM in place.
    He rightfully gets slagged for other stuff.
    The Iranians SPECIFICALLY TARGETED the facilities that serviced and launched the drone that took out Soleimani as a matter of honour - NOT because they really liked Soleimani himself.
    The IRGC didn't and the puppet government in Iran REALLY didn't.

    IYNWYNW..... ;)
     
  11. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    It was a tragedy, no one is to blame except those who sent the drone. Everything is in real time action, best effort, and people can make mistakes, or not make mistakes.

    Without looking it up I think GWB had 66 embassy attack deaths, zero investigations. Obama had four deaths and something like 13 investigations, and it seems to be still a topic to this day. Reagan had over 300 embassy deaths and one investigation, no one paid much attention to it.

    Secretary Austin brings his authority wherever he goes, at a hospital, or at a hearing wasting his time questioning him about the hospital. He already gave his answers. That should be the end of it.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The Iranians sent the drone and yes, the ATTACK is their fault. Whoever sent those reservists into harm's way in 2024 with 2001 safeguards need to answer a few questions.
    You can delegate your authority, but NOT your responsibility.
    SECFEF is a little different than the DEI secretary or SECTRANS because of nucular release authority.
    If Austin wants to have a Brazilian butt lift on the D/L - that's perfectly fine, but if he goes radio silent while his ASEC is having umbrella drinks in the Caribbean, and the Commander in Chief is in the dark about the whole thing - then questions need to be asked and answered.
    JUST don't ask his Chief of Staff over at the Pentagon, because they were clueless about off of this as well.

    241 Marines dead. 150 wounded. 6 US civilian KIA, and 58 French military people.
    I went to a (then, not now) classified brief on that attack back in the day.
    [​IMG]
    The Marine at the checkpoint survived the attack ONLY because when he saw the 5-tonne Mercedes truck barrelling towards him he ran to one side and tried to get his UNLOADED M16A3 into battery.

    We never did that again.

    In 2024, this attack would fail, because people DID pay MUCH attention to it.
    The "drive a truck bomb through a checkpoint" would have failed at al-Tanf or the FOB in Jordan.
    it actually HAS failed in Syria more than once as of last year, because people PAID ATTENTION to base access security after 1983.
    Go ahead and look that up and get back with us.
    Hint:
    Dubbaba was elected in 2000, inaugurated in January of 2001 and he served two terms.
    That would be eight years.

    Of course it should.
    Why bother with silly little things like investigations and such?

    Ballistic missile attacks are really REALLY hard to counter, BUT you're supposed to TRY.
    The al-Asad attack referenced above was successful because even though the Iranians forewarned us of that particular attack, we didn't have time to put up a C-RAM system.
    That was in 2020, and we DID have time to move aircraft out of the way and make sure nobody died.
    I would expect somebody's hide tacked up of the barn wall if the Iranians did the same thing in 2024 - AND got away with it - because you're SUPPOSED to 'pay much attention to it.'
     
    #12 ETC(SS), Jan 31, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2024
  13. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Secretary Austin brings and had the responsibility everywhere, and gave the answers. Nothing is wrong.
    Endless investigations with no reason, Obama.
    No investigation, Bush.
    One investigation, Reagan.
    9/11 rally around the President. How it should be.
    Biden goes to church, let’s make it he is doing something wrong.
    Jan 6, it was just a tour.
    The point is pretty clear.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Are there other possible rotorcraft drones to fit this story, such that an MQ-9-level runway is not needed?

    Publicly known, that is?
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Several of Helen Keller's 14 books are available at Project Gutenberg

    Books by Keller, Helen (sorted by popularity) - Project Gutenberg

    So test driving is possible before purchase decision. Or just stay in the free zone.

    Did I mention at time of that (felt) fanging that 'Helen Keller' is a brand name for sunglasses here? I am magnetically attracted to irony.
     
  16. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I actually chuckled at that.

    Speaking of irony, my DOD library failed me for HK titles - but then I remembered:
    LibriVox
    I thought of giving 'Optimism, an Essay' a toss, but I might try 'The World I Live In' a D/L instead.

    IDK....
    I'll look into it.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The essay is short enough I just finished it....
     
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Me too!
    However sometimes the difference between coincidence and irony is hard to distinguish. Example follows;

    Screenshot_2024-01-31-18-10-03-35_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

    & you see this sign in similar conditions in different locations
    .
     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Didn't get the screenshot, but I have an imagination!

    If this humble thread has done nothing else, it at least exposed another pair of eyeballs or two to Ms Keller's life.
    I always thought that she was horribly mistreated by the Wilson administration but that she got something of a 1900's era 'DEI boost' by 'overcoming' her overt childhood disadvantages.
    Meanwhile Wilson (NOT one of our better Presidents!!!!!!!!!!!) was credited with ONLY RELUCTANTLY leading us into 'The Great War.'
    A more careful study of history "might" reveal a different person.
    Wilson was an ardent Socialist - but by 1900 standards that meant that he assuaged the consciences of his minions by asserting that his interventions into 'lesser nations' was for the "greater good." (HE obviously HAD NO conscience!)

    FORTUNATELY his spouse (partner) was lesser gifted.
    See also: Nancy and DOCTOR Jill.
     
  20. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Remember who played a doctor at the podium during 2020. “All the doctors ask how do I know so much.” Such medical advice was the best in the history of the universe. Bleach, UV, it was amazing to all the doctors standing behind. Don’t let Jill be the only target, except she does have a doctorate.