1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

My car needs some A.I.

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Paul Gregory, Feb 11, 2024.

  1. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    To my way of thinking, the car should be able to learn from the times I have to intervene.
    When it sees a patch of snow or the shadow of some trees, it seems to go to the right and head for the ditch. One should think that it should keep at least steering straight, until it can reacquire its bearings.

    I can understand that my car was made in the wake of covid, and it may have been rushed to market with a few too many bugs, and there may be future over the air updates, but I think they owe it to their customers to tell us straight about these shortcomings. It seems like they have adopted the habits of Apple, where they don't admit any faults and tell the customers almost nothing.
     
    douglasjre likes this.
  2. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    439
    287
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    My Prime has never exhibited any of those behaviors.
     
  3. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,505
    233
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Are you going hands free with LKA?
     
  4. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    439
    287
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Yes but only during the times when I'm on the open freeway when it's not congested. I have also found when not using LKA, the car would sometimes want to make a minor correction but never to the right towards a ditch. Shadows and snow never seem to affect it.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,658
    49,371
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Toyota and most (all) manufacturers are like that
     
  6. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Just today, I was driving home on a two-lane road with a bit of snow cover, and the car wandered over the yellow dotted line on my left and was in the other lane before I brought it back into my own lane. There was no traffic, so it was just a test.
    The other annoying thing was a message that said the system had shut down; "See operator's manual." I parked, and cleaned a tiny speck of snow off the front, right proximity sensor, and all was well again.
    Seems like the responses to less than ideal conditions are a bit extreme.
     
  7. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    1,506
    385
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    You seem to be pushing the system beyond the claimed abilities. From the manual


    I'd say it certainly works beyond those conditions, but they're absolutely not overstating what it can do.
     
    Preebee likes this.
  8. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    848
    745
    4
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Maybe what is needed is a bit more OI (Operator Intelligence?). ;)
     
    nerfer and Trollbait like this.
  9. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    My expectations tend to be set by what is possible in competitive products. My 2012 Gen 3 was barely able to meet the minimum requirements for most of the systems, and I think I am seeing the same thing here. They may technically reach the bar, but they certainly do not seem to exceed it. But it is what it is, and I'll live with it.
     
  10. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    274
    163
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    That sounds reasonable at first but certifying a self-learning system for a critical component like Level 2 autonomous driving, which demands the highest safety level (ASIL D), is extremely challenging and no one would take the risk in the first place.

    Just imagine the system learning from "unsafe" driving behaviour...

    Even if at some point learning could be introduced within safe parameters, Toyota would probably one of the last one :rolleyes:
     
  11. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    That sounds to me like taking away user judgment, and substituting it with rote programming.
     
  12. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    274
    163
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Thats nothing new though - especially when it comes to safety. And not just the safety of the driver but anyone participating around you as well - might be a child jumping in front of the car as well.
     
  13. Blackat

    Blackat Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    259
    167
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    Limited AWD-e
    You sound dangerous. Glad you're not in Colorado
     
  14. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I've driven over 50 years without an accident. I don't need nanny technology to keep me safe.
     
  15. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    439
    287
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I don't think I'll live long enough to see an actual self-driving feature that can be fully trusted. I mean what's the point of using it if you can't trust it.
     
    AndersOne likes this.
  16. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I don't think any of us should expect a car to drive itself unmonitored by the driver.
    But better AI means more safety and fewer crashes.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,032
    11,504
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    None of these are self driving. Just driver aids that ease the mental load most of the time. There are times they won't help, but I'm guessing most crashes with them stem from people treating them as self driving.

    Actual self driving on all public roads and under all conditions is a hard problem. You might see it for limited applications. Ford's and GM's geofenced to highway systems are pretty close to it.
     
    AndersOne likes this.
  18. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    274
    163
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Youre not the only one driving in this world though.
    Yea so far most systems are marketed as "assistance" co-existing with the driver that can be easily overwritten (unless edge or more safety relevant cases). Like in the Prius.
    Only Tesla walks around with a different philosophy and partly wild (marketing) claims - and at least in Europe the "Autopilot" turns off right away if you give some manual steering input, eg for changing lanes.
     
  19. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    426
    116
    0
    Location:
    Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    This recent trend to "loss of latitude" in what we are allowed to do does not sit well with me.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,032
    11,504
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    What cars have driver assist systems that can't be turned off?
    Traction and stability control are mandatory, and even those can be turned off in most cars.