Is Project Lithium / Nexcell a scam battery?

If you think Toyota is gaslighting you into thinking the braking system works a certain way (by explicitly describing how it does in the Repair Manual) and you have evidence to the contrary, that might be of immense interest to the NHTSA.

I'd consider the brake booster pump as a closer analogue considering that it generates the pressure, but the skid control ECU is certainly the brain.

There is no communication between the master cylinder (or even the skid control ECU) and the inverter. A cursory flip through the Electrical Wiring Diagram will show that the inverter only communicates with the power management control ECU, MG1, MG2, and high voltage compressor.

What kind of signal are you implying gets 'mixed'? The specific state parameters required for cooperative control and transmitted between the required ECUs are clearly described in the Repair Manual.

 

Indirectly it is though, if it's fully controlling braking...which works hand in hand with regen, the service brake health or lack of certainly affects it. Again, only consult and trust certified hybrid mechanics (general public) not these armchair youtubers whose uncle Frank said so.

So much push back on such a basic concept seems like a bunch of angry know it alls just got one-upped. Basic knowledge, <2-3mm depth on brake pads, change them...FFS the OEM pad kits for all 4 corners are maybe $75 retail...just do it and save your $2500 HV battery.

 

So... I guess no one wants to help with my offer for metal on metal brake testing to prove or disprove that there's more power going to the battery pack in situations like this? Fine with me... I'd rather get my daily driver fixed asap anyways.

 

To be perfectly clear, no one in this thread suggested brake pads should not be changed when worn down. Sufficiently worn pads can cost you many multiples of the retail price of an OEM traction battery if you get into a severe enough accident by wrongly assuming that a deficit in friction braking will be compensated for by excess regen. The details matter.

Couple of reasons why resources might be directed towards other pressing questions:

1. The hypothesis (changes to friction braking affect the amount of regen) goes against published, publicly available Toyota documentation.
2. One ideally would not want to be in a situation where the rotor is contacting metal in the first place. The advice for replacing pads when they're down to 2 mm is sound. But they won't make an iota of difference to the condition of the traction battery.

 

Its rather hard to wear out pads even with 300,000 miles. That fact is enough to say regen does the vast majority of the work.

This whole argument by V shows his achilles heel.

 

Says the guy in his original post that was "dickish" and "egocentric" and "libel" towards Nexcell? You should stop measuring your weener and measure your brake pad depth instead..because 2-3mm is MY recommendation and that's pretty thin. You actually have seen 1mm, that's literally metal on metal dude..I wouldn't want my friends or family driving a car with that. Ever seen one of these tools buddy? Take a look where the red samples start..they don't give you a 1mm.

 

--Under city driving conditions Prius brakes are done especially on Taxis at 150k-175k easily (sometimes much sooner). You've perhaps made it to 300k because you are vigilant about how you drive it. Congrats..

--The true Achilles heel for you and other people who think they know when they don't, is I get to drive hundreds of Prius in various stages of health and decay and can monitor regen and braking systems of these cars through tech stream and hybrid assistant app to verify my claims and I can just chuckle at all your lofty DIY claims and Toyota tech manual links, etc. when I am seeing the live data on vehicles real time with a LARGE sampling of data with good pads, bad pads, good battery, bad battery, etc etc...and have the results.. while you only have your 1 car and whatever small experience you've had with it. Keep giving the public bad information, it keeps all the shops in business dude!

 

There's a lot of irony here. Much of this started from a single statement you made in Post 16.

you need to clean the bus bars and nuts off from the corrosion before reinstalling the Lithium Packs. Also, make sure your ICE is in top condition or that will ruin a battery. Replace break pads...also will kill a good battery.

Nothing you stated is new knowledge except the simple generic portion of the statement "Replace break pads...also will kill a good battery", with no qualifier about why or how. I ask for further explanation and you post a bunch of nothing burger, and continued to do so, appearing to be evasive as if you have some super-secret knowledge, or just don't know how, but say "replace them, trust me'. No explanation, no links, no nothing from you, who claims to be an expert.

You may very well be extremely busy at whatever facility you work at. Unfortunately, on a percentage basis, there's likely as many incompetent techs as there are incompetent DIYers, especially for hybrids. Have you ever thought maybe that's a reason many people DIY? Considering the posts you've made, I'm willing to say dealing with employees similar to yourself are another reason people choose to DIY.. C'mon....tell us some good stories of how you screwed over a customer or two. You do have some good stories you tell when having a beer with your friends, right? If you do (and we all know you DO) then you are part of the problem.

 

Please Read post #108 to answer this question. It's not proprietary information my guy, just down a simple APP on your phone and do the tests yourself. If you totally didn't believe me or give any credence to what I am saying I would have already been on ignore lol. So that's a compliment. But to be snarky again, the DIY guys on Prius Chat have harmed more people's vehicles INTENTIONALLY than any shop would in a lifetime UNINTENTIONALLY through trial and error or otherwise benign means. It sounds like you have experience telling your buds over beers how you screwed someone over, I would never have thought about that scenario or care.

 

Too bad we don’t have more moderators who could prevent some of the diverse and diverting activity. In this case it’s called “burying the lede” about retrofit lithium batteries.

 

Lol, admit it... You love this thread... You're trolling better and more prolific than ever before. Glad I took you off the ignore list so I can witness how happy and successful you've finally become on here.

 

Lol... Welcome to PriusChat... There's nothing untoward or conspired happening on here or in this thread. This is just who we are, it's how we have fun online, been doing it for decades. At Priuschat there's also always more to learn and an endless supply of people that need our help so they don't get scammed by a corrupt auto repair industry. So grateful for this community!

 

This is starting to feel eerily like one of the PriusOverlanding threads, with that one person who just can't admit to being mistaken about anything no matter the amount of evidence. They seem to have the mindset that physics and engineering are only for the textbooks, and that in the real world things work differently. Congratulations to them, mechanics like those are a dime a dozen, and they are very much the reason I do not let anybody else work on my vehicles.

Going through this thread (and numerous others) future readers should be able to judge for themselves what they're getting into when purchasing a Nexcell battery pack, the quality of information they're likely to receive from the seller, and the level of transparency they should expect. For now, an OEM pack is a finished product that at many dealerships costs less than the aftermarket lithium retrofit they'd be paying to beta-test.

 

The only difference is this thread is about a person who has demonstrated honesty and integrity with everyone he's worked with and is running a business that has significant potential for success in coming years. PriusOverlanding has proven that his efforts have become the exact opposite.

 

We know V and blackj are buds in real life and camper has a business relationship with the lithium boys.

Just to ensure the perspectives are understood as the Op was questioning early on.

 

You're so good at figuring everything out! I'm sure that will make you successful at ensuring everyone on here that you're the only one in the discussion who is right and all the rest of us are up to no good... I mean, who would doubt that?