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Hello - looking at used 2021 Prime LE high-ish miles - what to check? battery/engine, red flags?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by DC_2004_Prius, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    looking at a used Prime LE in MD from a small non toyota dealer that the carfax looks clean on on the surface -- one owner no accidents, but apparently it was leased and has relatively high miles at approx 70,000 been in service since April 2021 - so about 2 yrs 9 mos of driving time. Seems like a lot of highway miles isn't a terrible thing (if that's the case) and probably means a lot of the miles were in Hybrid/ICE driving mix vs. EV miles. Will drive monitors give clue to it's lifetime EV vs ICE driving? It's out of warranty and powertrain i think - whish was 60k - but hybrid system and battery still have some warranty. this dealer won't warrant anything. I am a Toyota and a toyota prius guy - and unless it was abused I am confident in the car's longevity - but just don't want to miss obvious battery/engine red flags if present.

    the odd thing is despite it being bought/owned from new by 'one owner' according to carfax there is basically no Toyota service history - only some random private auto shops, one oil change registered in its first 2 years in PA, a couple tire balances, etc. and registration annually. I guess they could've done self maint./oil changes, or small shops that didn't report, but why not freebies from Toyota in first 24k miles? seems like it was being driven 2500+ miles per month for much of it's time.

    could this car have been a taxi/uber? how could it have been leased but not ever serviced by toyota? any way to find former owner name/address by VIN to try and contact?

    How can I best check for the health of the battery, and state of engine/transmission/suspension wear/health? Does Dr. Prius cover the prime plugin/battery well as far as looking at all the cells and basic health? It was driven in PA/OH mostly so I think so assume I need to do a good rust check underneath.

    Any way to get a sense of engine/transmission/suspension neglect if it occurred? May not have chance to take it to a shop - and how would I find prius plug-in specialist anyway. Why would a new prius prime not have had free factory maintenance/oil changes done in first 24k miles? Big red flag?

    Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts you may have!
     
    #1 DC_2004_Prius, Feb 28, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2024
  2. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    A new car dealer or exclusively a used car dealer?
    Yea, it sounds like a lot, but some cars are just driven like that.
    Yes - if you can figure them out. It's not easy trying to look at the screens and know what they mean the first few times, and for some screens even longer, much longer. And there are a whole lot of new ones than even Gen 3 Prius Plug-in
    I don't have any experience with warranty claims, just remember your dealing with a dealer for them. Been to a local dealer lately?
    Have you driven it yet?
    Just keep checking both with and without using the VIM. Your bound to find something to give you more clues.
    Same as just above. Have you a Toyota Owners account?
    The OEM gauges and DrPrius are a good start. Yes DrPrius works / is supported for the Prime.
    But, I just did a Battery Life Expectancy test yesterday which is one of the options for DrPrius subscription ($12 and was worth it for me), and it didn't function all that well. Even though I was able to figure out how to get the test finished, it showed a charging error and a lower than expected estimated capacity left.
    So, now I know how to run that test and understand what the test is looking at and what to expect. (After all the app was originally built for a Gen 2 Prius Hybrid Battery). The free part of the DrPrius apps works well for the Prime and some of the advance features also work well, others are not up to speed yet.
    Only advice I can give is to that is test drive a Gen 4 Prime at a dealer to see if you notice a difference.
     
  3. Danno5060

    Danno5060 Member

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    Do your research for the IR tax credits. I don't know about the 2024 tax year, but for 2023 make sure the sales price (including all dealer handling..., excluding taxes and licensing fees) is less than $25,000. Also, check that the dealer will do the paperwork for the IRS tax refund. This got me a $4000 incentive. I'm sure things have changed for 2024, and there are other limitations. Your dealer probably won't be any help in knowing the IRS tax code, so you'll need to do your own research here.

    None of the dealers I went to seemed to know that much about a Prius in general, and were even worse when it came to the Prime. If you want to see what the EV mode is like, there's a way to charge the battery using the ICE engine. Lookup YouTube videos on how this works. Your dealer will probably be no help here either.

    One of the things I did was to go through the Carfax and see what the interval was for the oil changes. I noted how long before the first one too. It was a bit disappointing.

    If you go through the trip meters (Trip button on the steering wheel), you should get to one with the overall mileage - which also shows the overall MPG, provided nobody has reset that. Given the car has around 50MPG for the ICE engine, you can get a rough idea of how many ICE miles the previous owner was putting on it versus driving it in the EV mode. The one I got had an overall 75MPG, which to me means it was roughly half and half, so a 10K mile oil change was more like a 5K mile oil change as far as the ICE is concerned.

    I stopped going to the dealer for oil changes when something happened to my Gen 2 and it lost an engine after 125K miles. They also screwed up the plastic underbody panels after a freeway encounter with a jackrabbit, and a wheel bearing change.

    I stopped going to the oil change places when the oil change door on the bottom of my Gen 3 never seemed to stay closed after they changed the oil and filter. Those changes are on the Carfax.

    Now I do my own wheel bearings, oil changes... None of this shows up on the Carfax.

    I would be a bit leery of the northeast "salt belt" area cars. Definitely give it a look underneath and see if you see signs of rust. Check that the cat hasn't been stolen and replaced with a cheap aftermarket - especially if you've gotta get a yearly inspection.
     
    BiomedO1 likes this.
  4. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Yep; the odometer & trips will give you an idea of how the car was driven. The main MID will read 70K and next to it should be overall mpg. That should be in the neighborhood of 75 mpg. I'm 90% EV and mine reads 133 mpg and I only got 37K miles on mine. That's assuming the battery wasn't replaced or died - then everything resets.
    If your not sure, take the car to a Prius expert or body shop; to ensure it hasn't been in an accident and the title hasn't been washed/cleaned.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Danno5060 likes this.
  5. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    Thanks so much Vilov Dano and Biomed for your thoughts/advice - we have a 21 prime limited so I know the car pretty well. For me engine health (frequent synthetic oil changes), transmission health (? on 70k) and battery health (I only charge ours overnight on 8amp slower setting, don't leave it charged full or emptry and unused for long, don't charge in very cold temps, etc. - so wish I could know more about "where this car has been".) One of my main concerns is why was there no official toyota maintenance in the first 2 years/24k - and when carfax shows sold/first owner - and indicates "leased" - it's hard to decipher how it was used/where/for what. Why not take it to dealer for free maint. every 5 k in first 2 years? argh.
     
    Danno5060 likes this.
  6. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    If it was a "fleet lease" with a large organization, all maintenance would've been done in-house.That's part of the deal for the steep discount they lease the car for.
    When I was a field service technician, we were given a coupon book with our cars. Coupons was good at any Firestone automotive center. Firestone reports to Carfax, whomever did the maintenance didn't. Most large fleet organizations has a good handle on fleet vehicles maintenance, but there are outliers.
     
  7. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    did a fairly extended test drive - the 2021 Prime LE drove nicely as expected (we own a 2021 limited so knew what to expect on the drive side at least). small dealer sales tech guy also mentioned "fleet vehicle" - so like a large organization maybe insurance company, etc? that would do fleet maintenance in house so it wouldnt show up on Toyota owners portal/sevice history. got underneath/inside engine bay pretty thoroughly and there was some rust/residuals of "NY State Winter Driving" but nothing terrible - the plastic underbodies seem to do their job pretty well. I get the feeling it was driven a lot more in hybrid mode/long distances and not charged/driven EV every day. Wondering about ultimate health of battery - but it 'felt' like our limited 2021 prime - smooth fast accel in power mode/EV. here are some Dr. Prius screen shots - taken over course of extended drive. screen shots under hard /extended EV acceleration as well as during hard/extended regeneration. For whatever reason my dr. prius screen gets charging and discharging reversed and lists a very high number for charging/discharging amps - maybe decimal is in wrong place.? The pack voltage/state of charge/blade voltage seem to perform as expected - dropping or rising with regen or accel.

    here's early in the test drive hard EV acceleration followed by regen

    early in drive accel Screenshot__Dr Prius.jpg early in drive regen Screenshot_Dr Prius.jpg
     
  8. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    And then here are 4 screenshots 1 before, 2 of long extended hard EV acceleration 10mph - 80mph - merging onto highway - followed by 1 of regen just after. If I can navigate used plugin tax credit and get something knocked off on price for the rust/uncertain maint. history, and superficial dents, dings and scratches (that I don't care about but other customers may) - I'm going to try and get it. hoping for in the $18,500 range after $4k tax credit. we'll see.

    just before extended hard EV accell  Screenshot_20240229-163109_Dr Prius.jpg

    . extended hard EV accell 1 _ Screenshot_Dr Prius.jpg

    extended hard EV accell 2 Screenshot_Dr Prius.jpg

    regen after extended hard EV accell  Screenshot_Dr Prius.jpg
     
    #8 DC_2004_Prius, Mar 2, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
  9. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Yea, something is wrong with the DrPriujs screens. Could be your adapter, phone or your download / install of the app. Those screenshots don't help much. Does DrPrius show the same issues in your currently owned Prime XLE?
    My 2017 Prime Voltage range is 375.xx fully charged and 330.xx volts when the engine switches on. The 328.xx volts and the charge and discharge numbers make it hard to judge the others, especially the most empty internal resistance blue colored bars at the bottom. The second screenshot in your post #7 above, shows the internal resistance like mine usually does which I consider a good level.

    To give you an idea why what I call a internal resistance graph reset with my Prime, I've been driving all winter and only using the top half of the battery capacity ( never going below 50% SOC ) When I took this DrPrius screenshot, I'd driven EV using all the battery capacity than used charge mode to recharge all the way back to charge modes limit of 80% SOC. Internal Resistance started getting higher and a few or the blue bars went blank as I reached the the voltage when the engine starts up. It stayed that way while I was in charge mode until I reached 80% SOC and the Prime switched back into EV mode about 2 miles for home. By the time I'd gotten home this is what the screen looked like.
    28feb2024-drPrius-P1030238.jpg
    It's not the first time I've seen this happen, but it dose seem to happen mostly when using a part of the batteries capacity that hasn't been used for a month or two or three months. With me it's typically the lower half the batteries capacity that I don't use for extended periods of time.
    Hop;e that's not to confusing. Those Dr Prius screens make it difficult to evaluate the battery accurately.
     
    #9 vvillovv, Mar 2, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
  10. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    thanks vvillovv . yes some numbers are clearly wrong/misinterpreted by the app - but I think voltage difference, blade voltage, pack voltage, state of charge etc. appear correct/within range and look like the battery is performing reasonably well/as expected. Our other prime is a limited - but yes I need to hook it up to that and do similar testing/screenshots to see what's up.

    are you iphone or android? what android OS - i think I have 11. I'm going to go try and reload the app or check on settings or something or try on a diff. device - and also will do similar tests on our limited and report back.

    Thanks!
     
  11. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Member

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    Ok - prime limited showed the same issues- finally figured it out - my app needed an update. I had disabled some ancillary app/blocking background comms,/permissions etc. and after un-disabling that/fixing permissions - I saw option for update to Dr Prius - and afterwards there was the correct prime output - with same parameters as yours. I"m going to do a new thread specifically about Dr. Prius output/screenshots. Here's one driving gently in EV/Eco mode.

    Thanks again for your thoughts.

    Screenshot_174919_Dr Prius.jpg
     
    vvillovv likes this.
  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I'm looking forward to your new thread. If you have any extra screenshots to spare after you start your thread, if you wouldn't mind adding one or two to my old thread, it could use a couple besides mine and the one other one @srivenkat added.
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