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Hutzpah: blame the cure for the disease

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Mar 4, 2024.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Fury after Exxon chief says public to blame for climate failures | Climate crisis | The Guardian

    The world is off track to meet its climate goals and the public is to blame, Darren Woods, chief executive of oil giant ExxonMobil, has claimed – prompting a backlash from climate experts.
    . . .
    Woods argued that big oil is not primarily responsible for the climate crisis.

    The real issue, Woods said, is that the clean-energy transition may prove too expensive for consumers’ liking.

    “The dirty secret nobody talks about is how much all this is going to cost and who’s willing to pay for it,” he told Fortune last week. “The people who are generating those emissions need to be aware of and pay the price for generating those emissions. That is ultimately how you solve the problem.”
    . . .

    My history shows each technology change has brought my costs down:
    • 1991 Camry manual to 2003 Prius - MPG went from 35 to 52.
    • 2017 Prius Prime to 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus - EV range from 25 mi to 240 mi.
    In the past, I've speculated that had Toyota replaced the Prius Prime ICE, 211 lbs, 40 lbs exhaust, 20 lbs intake manifold, 20 lbs radiator, 40 lbs fuel tank and 265 lbs battery, a total of ~600 lbs, with batteries it would have made a ( 600 / 800 ) * 240 mi ~= 180 mi EV range. It would have been more sedate than my Tesla Model 3 but over time, achieved equivalent range. We can speculate but not replay history.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Mar 4, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
  2. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    If everyone had a car like a Prime, emissions from gasoline would go down dramatically, and gas prices. In my case, and many I’m sure, essentially all the local driving can be done on ev. I have to plan to run the engine so as not to under use it. In my case I want the back up gas engine, just in case. Although a full ev is tempting. If I was just by myself with no family farther away it would be ok. I can’t have an emergency and I have to drive 150-200 miles and my ev is at half charge in the driveway at midnight.
    As far as hubris, yeah he is full of it. It’s only talking.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    He’s right, and wrong.
    I’m not sure which climate failures he is referring to, but for personal transportation the transition is going nicely
    It’s a big world with a lot of dependency on fossil fuels.
    If he said ‘we can all do more’, I would agree, but most people aren’t interested, some can’t afford to, and some countries would be giving up a lot of recent ascendancy
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    With today's Prius Prime, I can agree:
    BMW vs Prime.jpeg
    My history:
    • 2014 BMW i3 REX - brilliant EV with Range Extender Engine turned me on to adequate range EV with REX giving long distance, gas capability.
    • 2017 Toyota Prius Prime - fatally flawed, short EV range with forced, blended EV and gas. Although bought new, it soon became hated driveway, sheet metal art.
    • 2017 BMW i3 REX - excellent EV range for local trips, it reduces the charge cycles that age my 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus. It still has long distance, gas capability.
    • 2024 Toyota Prius Prime - improved EV range but still forced, blended EV and gas. Not even close to being tempting.
    Tuition in the school of hard knocks:
    • 2014 BMW i3 REX - paid $29,000 and went with ex-wife.
    • 2017 Toyota Prius Prime - paid $29,000 and trade-in $18,300.
    • 2017 BMW i3 REX - paid $15,000.
    • 2024 Toyota Prius Prime - no interest $0.
    This shows how well each PHEV met my daily requirements:
    daily miles PHEV.jpeg
    I might have tolerated the 'blended gas and EV' of the current Prius Prime because both BMWs have an engine maintenance cycle for 15 minutes every 60 days. But the lack of a hard EV mode was irritating.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Mar 4, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
  5. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Any of those. My meaning was “like” the Prime, a car to run around locally with on ev, still deliver excellent gas mileage on longer drives. Driving one mile and back to a grocery store with a big gas engine is and was very wasteful. In my case the Prime works. I don’t even need the 33 miles usual range 99% of the time, maybe half of that would still be ok.
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I just wanted to share my experience with EV range of a PHEV needed to match typical driving profile.

    I thought the 2017 Prius Prime would soon replace the 2014 BMW i3-REx but side-by-side, the Prime lost badly. The Prime 25 mi EV it not enough when the BMW i3-REx PHEV has nearly three times, 72 mi, EV range. Soon I realized I'd made a $29,000 mistake and the Prime was never going to get the usage of the BMW i3-REx.

    So I traded in the 2017 Prius Prime, $18,300, for the 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus, $42,000. I only had to finance ~$24,000. A side effect, the BMW i3-REx remains a better City car than Model 3. But the Model 3 puts on long range EV miles much more comfortable (and slightly cheaper.)

    As for the two BMW EV ranges:
    • 72 mi - a little short that required occasional gas, maybe 20-30 gallons per year.
    • 106 mi - fully meets my City driving needs and looks to be 2-3 gallons per year.
    Bob Wilson
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if only we could find a company to make more primes...
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That's true, just as true if we all peddled our way to work or the grocery store ... or to the campground - we would save a ton of gas and prices would go down as well. If you have a huge load of hay or fertilizer, you might have to get a horse drawn Buckboard but I suppose it would work. Then there's the issue of practicality. Such a supposition might work for many . It doesn't work for everyone. Besides, look how stupid the Mongols & Hells Angels motorcycle clubs would look in a Prius. Similarly, I'd hate watching the Daytona 500.
    ;)
    .
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That's partially hamstrung by the shortcomings of the modern cities, with widely separated ghettos for work, accommodation and shopping.

    By dumb-luck we managed to buy a house within walking distance of shopping. And now of course there's Amazon. Commuting a long distance to work was still a challenge though.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    (disregerd - wrong topic)
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I once had a round-the-world-somewhere tech support trying to tell me to hit this key "~", ampersand I believe it's called. I'd never heard the name to start with, and coupled with the accent it took us a while to establish contact, lol.
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Ampersand .... '&'
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Oh hell, so it is. :oops:
     
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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    tilde .... '~'

    called twiddle by its friends
     
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  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Tilde Swinton :)

    BTW ~ related, today is National Proofreader's Day. En garde.
     
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  16. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Easy....
    Outlaw non-Primes.

    Of course, it would suck for Farmers, Ranchers, Builders, Contractors, Field Engineers, Plumbers, Electricians.....but just think of all of the fuel we would save.......
     
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  17. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    “Cute” but “like a” in “like a Prime” applies to Farmers and Fire Trucks, etc.
    Not the famous camera, the plug in hybrid system.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Is there a problem?
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    At 3 bucks a gallon, driving anything is pretty cheap
     
  20. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    As in if you advise, I will do the opposite the rest of my life?