Featured Chinese EVs are winning – here's how Ford, Nissan, Honda and more are fighting back

In the same way Zuckerberg's Facebook is trying to ban TikTok in the US, I bet automakers will do the same to ban BYD ev cars from China. But maybe if enough people find out about how affordable they are, consumer demand would find a way. Of course it would massively disrupt what's left of Detroit automakers:

BYD’s new EV, starting at less than $10,000, is stoking fear across the industry

https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/byds-new-ev-starting-under-10000-stoking-fear-rivals

 

but ev sales are dwindling, and hybrids and phevs are the latest craze, right?

i didn't see any sales numbers for chinese ev's in japan in the article, did i miss it?

 

The only reason sales are dwindling is because they are too expensive... And all the rich people who wanted one have already bought 'em. That's what happens when a small number of rich people double their wealth during the pandemic and then tell 8 billion poor people that it's just inflation and not their fault. You can't have a healthy economy when a small number of people are hoarding all the wealth.

It's even worse than real estate! Out here in the Seattle area the median/average home price with current interest rates would require a family to earn $212K a year to qualify for financing. That means 88% of everyone living in the Seattle area can no longer afford a median/average price home. All the while fat cat developers are telling us they'll solve all out "housing shortage" problems if we just stop regulating them and let them build whatever they want. The claim there's a housing shortage, but it's really an affordability shortage. There's currently 16 million vacant homes in the US that people can't afford to rent or own, but they kepe telling us the regulations are in the way of the housing crisis and creating a shortage. Capitalism is so absurd!

 

of course there will be buyers, and volvo bevs get a lot of press, also owned by the chinese.

but the numbers are minuscule, and the percentage of growth is dropping. will cheaper ev's sell more, most likely, but people have a lot of reasons not to buy ev's beyond price.

 

I wonder how much of that additional $14K you pay for one in Japan is a protectionist trade policy to protect Japanese automakers? And similarly, BYD in Europe are up in the $40K range...

I wonder where we could find the money to subsidize EVs?

"Globally, fossil fuel companies raked in a record $7 trillion in subsidies—explicit and implicit—in 2023" https://www.forbes.com/sites/dipkabhambhani/2024/01/08/fossil-fuel-could-power-energy-transition-through-biden-subsidies

Seems like $7 trillion would easily pay for a free EV for everyone?

 

They might rust rapidly, have dashes crack in the sun, failed software updates, unreliable AC and 12v systems but they are much more aerodynamic than any western EVs

China: The invasion of cars with record-breaking aerodynamics

As such they are untouchable in terms of range VRS battery size

 

Recently read that Gen2 Prius was the most aerodynamic car you could by for more than a decade until Tesla finally took that spot... Hope someday Toyota makes a retro Prius that's EV that has the same Gen2 shape. That'd be a bigger deal than the Ford Bronco revival, for sure!

 

Not Chinese, but a figure from a couple years ago was that 10% of ice car sales in Japan were imports. For EVs, it was 30%. Total numbers is low, but the lack of interest by the Japanese companies has made room for foreigners to enter.

 

Good point! I wonder if the nuke plant disaster in 2011 that's been so costly to Japan's electrical infrastructure investments that they've been treating EV charging infrastructure as a burden too great to bear till they get their electric financials re-organized?

 

Impressive aerodynamic performance but sometimes, optimizing one aspect of a design can cripple other parts like cabin utility . . . not bouncing passengers off the roof. Regardless, I prefer efficient cars. and would consider whatever is available when my 2019 Model 3 reaches the end of its design life, 2034 +/- 3 years. My requirements from 2019 are unlikely to change:

• Efficient
  • Hyundai Ioniq (136 MPGe)
  • Model 3 Std Rng Plus (133 MPGe)
  • Model 3 Std Rng (131 MPGe)
• Range
  • Model 3 Std Rng Plus (240 mi)
  • Model 3 Std Rng (220 mi)
  • Hyundai Ioniq (124 mi) - range sacrificed by smaller, lighter battery pack
• Automated Driver Assistance, Tesla
  • Autopilot ($1,200)
  • Full Self Driving ($6,000) - changed software architecture
  • LIDAR and pre-mapped roads
• Fast DC charging
  • Same manufacture as car - SuperCharging network
  • Separate manufactures - unpaid, final integration and test, CCS-1
  • CHAdeMO - only Nissan, 50 kW too rare and slow

In 2034 +/- 3 years, my 2019 is projected to reach the end of its design life and I'll be as old as my Dad when he passed, The car and I will likely have body parts replaced. Already, the most recent Tesla processor, HW 4, can not be retrofitted to my 2019 Model 3. Regardless, my warrantee wears out in 2049, 100 years.

Bob Wilson

 

Im hearing that for months now - what Im seeing though in Germany are Chinese premium showrooms (eg NIO) popping up in most expensive downtown regions. They are showing SUVs and expensive sedans - going after Benz, Audi and BMW and not "budget" brands.
They only cheap cars so far are some MGs competing with VW.

Polestar - the EV only spinoff from Volvo is selling so badly, that they will be completely removed from Volvo and added as a direct subbrand to Geely.

Its not so easy at the moment - one summer hotter than the other they can barely keep air conditioning running in Tokyo.

 

Yep, Chinese want to sell up market, not what anyone wants but that’s what’s on offer.

As for Tokyo who knew 100volt 30 amp copper clad aluminum domestic service could be problematic ?

 

Well I think US Autos liked 100% EV mandates because they thought they could kill Toyota who was hybrid King. Japan is more concerned about fuel conservation and diversity of energy supplies and less able to revamp whole infrastructure for EV. Less EV fans there.

Enter China (and Warren Buffet?) weakening FORD, GM dreams of taking over USA auto market based on their vision of USA government mandates for people to have to buy 100% USA-made EV's only. Suddenly Hybrids not so bad word for the USAutos.

 

no one will catch toyota in hybrids, but they are just a knee jerk reaction in attempt to slow down ev progress

 

I would be wary of any Chinese EV at this point. The CCP has pumped a lot of government resources into EVs, and there are too many corruption issues that go along with that. I see videos of Chinese EV customers having major issues, along with Chinese real estate buyers and the Evergrande meltdown and there are too many parallels for me. I think the term is Tofu Dregs, but that may be more for infrastructure and building projects. It probably isn't accurate, but there are too many parallels.

There's definitely a void that these vehicles are trying to fill. I don't know why every EV needs to be a full-on rocket, drive itself without any assistance, or have disappearing handles and a clear roof for that matter. Give me an EV that I can take to work everyday, go grocery shopping, and make a yearly trip to visit family in another state. I would think that an EV could be designed without all the excess gadgetry, has a 300+ mile range, accelerates enough to keep up with everyone else in traffic going from stop light to stop light, and is fast enough to go all the way up to the speed limit (and a little more). You know, a Gen 2 or Gen 3 Prius that runs on electricity.

It would be nice if that car had local dealer support, parts availability, and the reliability that should come from the car being mechanically much simpler than the ICE vehicles we have to maintain now. So far, EV manufacturers have been doing everything BUT, so I'll keep driving my Prii.

 

How come your profile says you have a 2017 Prius? Why not change it to what you really drive?

Actually, I know plenty of people that gave up their Toyota hybrid because they thought US made hybrids were superior.

Same with housing/real estate... There's more profit in selling stuff to rich people. They all act like the bottom 85% of potential buyers don't exist because they're too poor. And good like building a stable business plan when you're holy dependent on selling to the top 15% income earners. It's currently the #1 reason for the downturn in the EV market.

 

Japan was fine with building entirely new infrastructure for hydrogen cars though. Now their industry is upset that their government talks about supporting plug ins.

Hybrids, including the Prius, got government support through Japan's LEV program. The program also gave support to EVs. This was around the time of the EV1. Most of the BEVs offered to the public in Japan were ones using lead-acid batteries. Such cars didn't get a big reception, which left auto companies thinking the public only wanting cheap, short range BEVs. So they focused on hydrogen and fuel cells. Forgetting battery technology can also improve in time.

This lead to them underestimating plug in growth. Toyota didn't even have the battery supplies to meet Rav4 Prime demand, and the Prius Prime is still being imported in small numbers.

 

Hybrids, yes. Just my PHEV BMW i3-REx kicked my Prius Prime to the curb.

At one time, I owned both and hoped the Prime would replace the BMW. Instead, the Prime became unloved driveway 'art' because of the short, 25 mi EV range and poor 2017 version of TSSP. I understand both have been improved in subsequent years. But I replaced the 2014 BMW i3-REx with a used 2017 BMW i3-REx.

Comparing the 2024 Prius Prime and 2017 BMW i3-REx:

• Electric range / efficiency (EPA)
  • 40 mi / 114 MPGe - Prime
  • 97 mi / 111 MPGe - BMW
• Gas range / efficiency (EPA)
  • 510 mi / 48 MPG - Prime
  • 83 mi / 35 MPG - BMW
• Charging / fueling (EPA)
  • L2 6.6 kW / 10.6 gal - Prime
  • CCS-1 50 kW / 1.9 gal - BMW
• Driver assist (sales claims)
  • Traffic Jam Assist - Prime
  • Driving assistant plus - BMW

For my purposes, the electric drive is more important than gas driving.

Bob Wilson