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Hybrid system Malfunction (Visit Your Dealership)

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by RandyPete, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Senior Member

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    There are 21 documents in the PHEV Air Conditioning section. I'll upload the general overview doc so you can get an idea of the style and format. Some docs are long, and some are just a couple sentences.

    My advice would be to pay for the two day access during a time you can spend several hours over the two days. The site isn't the most user friendly, and it can take awhile to figure out how to find what you're looking for. Honestly, spending $95 for a full month of access isn't a terrible idea the very first time you access the system. You can take your time exploring without feeling like there's a ticking clock over your head. Then you can do the 2-day access down the road when you just need one or two things and you already know how to look for them.
     
  2. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Is the Car Care Nut Video the 2 ear old on on the Toy Rav Prime Climate control System. Thats the one I reviewed, and it has been stated that the '23-24 PP Climate Control system is identical or naarly Identical.
    I do respect the Weber State YouTube info. But have not viewed anything on the newer PP 2023-24 Gen5 vehicle.
    Thank You.
     
  3. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Thank You much.
    Very impressive and informative info.
    Will head your advice.
     
  4. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Senior Member

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    I think he means the following video from about a month and a half ago:
    (but they do cover much the same info)

     
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  5. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Yes the recent CCN video is a broader overview but references the more detailed earlier video.

    WeberAuto’s heat pump video speaks with more authority on the role of heat pumps and Tesla’s ability to capture heat from electronics and other unexpected sources when needed.
     
  6. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Here's a follow up on my 2024 Toy PP XSE warranty service quest:
    As previously reported the vehicle had some HV system failure indications.
    Went back in for warranty over one month ago, and car has been at the local dealership now for over a month. Then I noted the Climate Control system AC and Heating system quit blowing hot or cold air. The challenge has been finding the AC/Heatpump system gas leak. They stated they need a special tool, not released yet by Toyota, to find the leak. In time they got the tool. Isolated the gas (freon replacement gas) leak was found in the traction battery assembly by disconnecting that system from the vehicle and evacutaing that part of the climate system. It would not hold vacuum. Therefore the leak is in that component. Turns out that the traction battery with cooling/heating evaporator/condenser is all one assembly. The climate control part of that assembly cannot be replaced without replacing the Traction battery with it.
    Long sad story, 8-10 week lead time on delivery for the traction battery to the dealership from Toyota parts cache.
    I did ask one more time for a replcaement vehicle and this time they reserved a car for me from a car rental company. They are paying for the rental. Rental is due back to the rental co in 4 weeks.
    I suspect that by the time the Heating AC system is fixed (replacing the traction battery assenbly) the 12v battery will be dead. I ask them if they had a replaceement 12v battery. The service writer did not have an answer. I stated that i have read about problems getting the 2024 PP XSE 12v battery for warrenty replacement at toyota dealers, including their dealership. He did not take my concern seriosly and I think he will not even check into it. I guess I'll have go into the dealership with my DVM in hand and check the 12v battery where its parked on their lot. Then get into the hassle of discussing its poor state of charge and getting a relacement on the way.
    What a PITA.
     
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  7. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Wow, this is not good at all, as it almost sounds like whenever the A/C fails, you will also need to replace the traction battery. Now, imagine in a few years when the warranty expires and A/C problems become very common. How would you afford a repair, which would probably cost $10,000? I am glad that Gen 4 Prius Prime uses air-cooling.
     
    #67 Gokhan, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Regarding the 12-V battery, any centrally vented BCI 140R/DIN H4/EN LN1 flooded-cell (not AGM) calcium lead–acid battery works in Gen 5. There are many brands out there, including Walmart EverStart Maxx BCI 140R and EverStart Maxx DIN H4. I believe Toyota TrueStart DIN H4 is also centrally vented. You need central venting to be able to connect the exhaust hose.
     
    #68 Gokhan, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024
  9. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    No. If Climate control System (heating and cooling) of traction battery leaks freon internal to the traction battery, the battery with its climate control component have to be replaced as a unit. The climate control elements of the traction battery cannot be replaced unless the battery is also replaced. Or so my local toy dealer thinks.
     
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  10. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Imagine this happened in a couple of years with your warranty expired.
     
  11. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Gen 5, right ? Not Gen 6 !
     
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  12. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Ha ha, yes, I am ahead of generations again. LOL
     
  13. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Emission components (Including Traction battery) are warranted for 150,000 miles by Toyota in California.
     
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  14. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    My new PP XSE 12v battery is under waranty by Toyota at this time. If it fails, toyota will undoubtedly want to install the right battery from their stock. If they do not stock one, and I want a waranrty replacement battery, I wait untill they get one, right ?
     
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  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Toyota is replacing the OEM GS Yuasa EN LN1 battery with the Toyota TrueStart DIN H4. There should be plenty of those in stock.

    You can see that it is centrally vented, with a hole in either side and with a tear-off red plug attached to the positive-terminal cover to plug the unused hole.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Walmart EverStart Maxx BCI 140R has a much larger reserve capacity (RC) of 95 minutes than the 74 minutes of the Toyota TrueStart DIN H4.

    [​IMG]
     
    #75 Gokhan, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That’s about what I used to pay for one of these, well organized and edited, very thorough:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    Cold Cranking Amps have absolutely nothing to do with a hybrid that doesn't have a starter.
     
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  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Seems a little stingy considering they're lucky enough to count you as a customer. You know "some" manufacturers give service manual access for free ;

    https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/en-us/

    Tesla service manuals are now free, diagnostic software gets price increase

    no ticking of clock running ....
    .
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    This is absolutely wrong.

    The DC–DC converter for the 12-V system does not kick in as soon as you push the start button. Therefore, you are looking at at least 100 A or more initially drawn from the 12-V battery when you start an HEV/PHEV/BEV. Once the system starts, the DC–DC converter will take over to supply the 100 A or more that is necessary to run the system, but that requires about a second if not more to happen. This is exactly why the Prius won't start with a weak 12-V battery. This is not much different than a car with a starter in that sense.

    Moreover, the CCA is mentioned in the Prius owner's manual, and the new-car features manual mentions that the starting performance (SOF) is one of the things the battery sensor measures. Owners with a 12-V-battery monitor also report the brief voltage drop due to the large current drawn during the start-up. If the 12-V battery is weak with a high internal resistance due to battery degradation/cold weather/poor build quality, this brief voltage drop due to a large current at the start-up will be too large, and the car will not be able to start and go into the READY mode as a result.

    ●Use a battery that the case size is same as the previous one (LN1), 20 hour rate capacity (20HR) is equivalent (45Ah) or greater, and performance rating (CCA) is equivalent (285A) or greater.

    BATTERY SENSOR
    CONSTRUCTION

    (a) The battery sensor (battery state sensor assembly) installed to the negative (−) auxiliary battery terminal calculates the current, voltage, battery temperature, SOC (battery charging percentage), SOH (battery degradation percentage), SOF (starting performance) and self-diagnosis result and sends these signals to the hybrid vehicle control ECU via LIN communication.

    I believe the CCA ratings for BCI, DIN, and EN batteries might be measured differently.
     
    #79 Gokhan, Jun 10, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    LOL Yeah, I had paid good money in 1995 for the copy of my OEM repair manual for my 1985 Corolla FWD. I was excited to get it. Those times are long gone. It is time to adapt to the new times.

    Get a modern car already, Mendel. LOL