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Unnecessary (& rough) running ICE

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Fubar XIII, Jul 10, 2024 at 4:00 PM.

  1. Fubar XIII

    Fubar XIII Member

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    In the last two months my car has developed an ICE idle that is both rough and occurring when unwarranted.
    As we are used to, the ICE will start when the battery is low or when the throttle is depressed :)() enough or when speeds are high enough to warrant it. When it does so, it's still a smooth running engine and it kicks off as the software & conditions dictate. That's been well and good for over 285,000 miles and nearly 8 years.

    But now, a third condition has appeared, a rough "idle" that can actually be felt through the steering wheel & armrest as well as heard. It occurs intermittently, mostly at times when the ICE should be off (though occasionally when it is already running) such as when decelerating (approaching a red light/stop sign, foot off the throttle and more than 2 bars showing on the battery indicator) or when sitting at a complete stop where it sometimes kicks in and runs for several seconds (up to 30), again with a half full or more battery indicator. On more than one occasion it actually revved higher while at a complete stop or slowing towards one.

    There appears to be no commonality here other than it should not be running in those conditions nor has it ever been rough.
    Any thoughts, folks?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    might be time for a health check of the hybrid battery
     
  3. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    At that mileage, I'd probably replace the entire ignition coil set and put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank. One or more bad or borderline coils would explain the intermittent rough idle. While swapping out the coils, I'd also look at the conditions of the spark plugs, since I'm there. There's lots of counterfeit parts out there.

    Hope this helps....

    Have you changed the ATF?
     
  4. Fubar XIII

    Fubar XIII Member

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    I am approaching time to replace plugs. Hopefully, coils not needed. Fuel cleaner is on my list and hasn't been used in months, unusual for me. I'm putting nearly 1,000 miles/week on and haven't cleaned the tank yet this year. :eek::sick:
    It kind of feels like a odd sensor thing since it is so random. Most of the time the ICE runs smoothly as it always has but then this roughness overlays it occasionally under the weirdest situations.
    ATF has not been touched as it is sealed for life at the factory. I'm also nearing periodic maintenance on several areas, flushing the engine coolant & hybrid battery coolant among them. If plugs & cleaner don't do anything, I'll inquire at the dealership when I ask about PM @ 300k.

    Wait until I tell you how long the brakes lasted
     
  5. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    With the hv battery half full the hv battery should not be the immediate issue. If it was low it would cause the engine to run.

    A sticking open egr valve is a possibility. Normal egr valve status is closed at idle or low speeds but if the engine is trying to stall with an egr stuck open it will rev up as needed. An aftermarket egr or vacuum leak can cause similar problems. Sometimes a P0401 code will trip.

    You can monitor the map pressure and run an egr active test with Techstream.
     
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  6. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    I doubt it's a spark plug issue, since it's rare and intermittent. Seems more sticky mechanical or intermittent electronic hick-up.
    It took me 6 months to nail down an intermittent coil on my GMC. It started around 260K miles and I could feel the missing cylinder under load. No CEL or pending codes until it flat-out died. Really easy to troubleshoot when it doesn't fire at all.:D:LOL::ROFLMAO:

    FWIW: all fluids get changed every 100K miles on my cars. I consider it cheap maintenance insurance. No fluid last forever, especially since your pushing 300K. There's a drain and fill plug on the transmission/transaxle. Just thought you may want to dump out the metal filings at the bottom of the transmission.
     
  7. Fubar XIII

    Fubar XIII Member

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    Stopped by one of the local dealerships yesterday. The info I got is NOT making me happy
    According to Golling Toyota in Warren, MI, the engine coolant, inverter coolant, and front differential fluid are all supposed to be replaced every 30,000 miles! And each service costs $270.
    My dealer in Bradenton, FL, told me 100,000 miles on coolant and that the tranny was sealed and was good for life.
    One of these is definitely off.
    A phone call to FL is going to be made. If they are wrong, all hell is going to rain down on them. If the local place is wrong, I will be doing a Karen impression there with the highest up the food chain person I can find. And then go somewhere else.
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Good grief! There is a manual supplied with every Toyota that spells out the maintenance requirements. For a 2016 Prius major items in the US:
    IMG_5629.jpeg IMG_5630.jpeg IMG_5631.jpeg IMG_5633.jpeg IMG_5632.jpeg
     
    Fubar XIII, Brian1954 and FuelMiser like this.
  9. JohnPrius21

    JohnPrius21 Junior Member

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    Maybe try cleaning the throttle body and the mass airflow sensor.
     
  10. Fubar XIII

    Fubar XIII Member

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    I actually read that entire 800 page manual - except the 15 pages in French - when I bought the car and have referenced it numerous times since. Haven't found it yet since the move, though (Oct. '23)

    Gotta love how the first item is to check the driver's floor mat. And third is check the wiper blades.
    And replacing the oil & filter, plus tire rotation & inspecting the air intake filter for the hybrid battery, is specified for every 5k miles in mine (I suspect you left those pages out)
    I replace plugs more often, about 80-100k.
    Had the engine & hybrid fluid replaced somewhere nearing 150k, if I recall correctly. Will attempt to confirm when I call FL dealer.

    I definitely appreciate the info, RJ. I'm going looking for that manual again. Going to beat the service tech with it. Maybe.
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Go to Toyota.com and download like I did. Remember Canada and other countries will have different schedules which could be the miscommunication. However it’s well known many dealers push services early and will sell unnecessary services as well.
     
  12. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Coolant change is excessive but understandable in Warren, MI - where they get hard freezes in the winter. FYI: Once the first coolant change is performed, subsequent coolant changes are at 50K mile intervals - per OEM manual.

    ATF fluid changes @ 30K miles is for automatic transmission in trucks and SUV that tows something on a regular basis. On a sedan that doesn't tow anything 60K-90K miles is the normal change interval. I think some of the early CVT's required 30K mile change intervals.

    Whenever someone tells me something is lifetime - the follow-up questions is:
    1. Who's lifetime ? Mine or a house fly????(n) Back in my high school days, any American car with over 100K miles on it was destined for the junk yard. IMHO; whenever an OEM states lifetime, they really mean "end of warranty period".
    2. Do you have it in writing somewhere? I need to look at that.

    Bottom line, It's your car, maintain it as you see fit.....
     
    #12 BiomedO1, Jul 14, 2024 at 1:49 PM
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2024 at 1:57 PM
  13. Fubar XIII

    Fubar XIII Member

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    Oh, you ain't kidding there, boyo! And it isn't just the dealerships, many of those chain repair places will do it too. I once saw an older guy, in his 70s, pay almost $70 to have his windshield wipers replaced when he came in to pick up his car after being serviced. $17.95 per wiper and $29.95 for putting them on, plus tax, of course. But they threw out the old ones for nothing. I buy mine online, about $3.50 each, average for all three. Takes about 30 seconds to do. Ringling was right, a sucker born every minute.
    Just another in a long list of reasons to be an informed person, whether it's car repair or voting or buying a house, do your due diligence or suffer for your stupidity.