Featured Elon Musk’s big lie about Tesla is finally exposed

pray tell then .... why'd Tesla move their state of incorporation?

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we have overhead signs on the highways around here that occasionally flash, 'watch out for motorcycles'.
i watch out for everyone, but motorcycles, bicycles and pedestrians can be especially hard to see.
it would help if motorcyclist behavior was concentrated on safety, but there are a lot of yahoos out there, in any vehicle, but some are more vulnerable than others.

 

On a recent trip up an Interstate highway as a passenger I happened to notice traffic cones off on the far edge of the shoulder, a single cone irregularly spaced. I then happened to notice that every time I saw one, the car either hit a pot hole of swerved to avoid one. I then remarked to my driver that, if there was a cone, there was a pothole deep enough that someone marked it to be filled. Thus the cone provided advanced warning and easy avoidance if you put the two together.

Does your automated system avoid 6 inch diameter potholes?

When will any automated system put two and two together like the human mind did? (I had never seen it before.)

 

Used properly, ADAS systems are clearly an improvement. But too many fan-bois are now driving as if it is already so certified, using AP/FSD as crutches to do trips they wouldn't attempt without these tools, and throwing insults at the nay-sayers who protest their mis-use. I first posted this particular fatality as a tragic counterexample to a member here who previously wrote:

After I challenged that claim, he did change 'not a risk' to 'infinitesimal small risk', which was still false, as this tragedy showed.

We mustn't lead drivers into additional mental disengagement that adds to this toll.

While many crotch-rocket enthusiasts are greasing themselves, this particular cyclist was obeying safe driving rules and wasn't at any fault. He was going with the traffic flow, staying in lane (that road is just one lane each way), not speeding or lane-splitting or passing on the shoulder or doing anything else wrong. A car controlled by only a very-highly-touted Level 2 ADAS system, while the human driver was mentally disengaged from driving, ran him down from behind.

 

Although it's very unfortunate for the motorcyclist that shouldn't have died because the driver wasn't paying attention, FSD might have prevented me from t-boning someone last June.

I was on a two lanes per side road with a divider and a speed limit of 70 km/h. Near where I was, there is a partially hidden intersection. Usually, when I reach there, I watch for cars that might come out of the intersection. That day, my gaze went toward the other direction on my left and suddenly, my car slowed down aggressively. Bringing back my gaze in front of me. I saw a car crossing the intersection right in front of me! Without FSD, because I was distracted by what was happening on the other side of the road, I might have t-boned that lady. This never made the news since "nothing happened". How many "nothing happened" have there been because of FSD? That's a metric we'll never know.

 

Can anyone find the Tesla dash cam video from this crash?

There are scenarios where the earlier FSD versions might not react fast or aggressive enough. For example, a motorcyclists illegally and dangerously riding the lane lines and darting across the lanes. Was other traffic blocking a view of the motorcyclist.

Bob Wilson

 

My impression is that we are confusing this thread and the message.

FSD when used to ASSIST/SUPPLEMENT the fully in control and fully aware driver = GOOD

FSD when misused by LAZY/INATTENTIVE/IRRESPONSIBLE drivers =BAD

Any attempt to imply FSD is truly self-driving = VERY BAD

(example - see current DOJ/NHTSA investigation of TESLA)

 

I believe the issue most critics have of FSD is in how Tesla is going about getting that Level 5 certification.

Others working on Level 5 submit to closer regulatory scrutiny, limitations to where the system can operate, and even have the cars visibly marked in some way. Even makers with Level 3 systems have to meet more requirements before they could sell cars with them. Heck, Level 2+ abilities from others only operate under certain conditions.

Doing it that way, means Tesla couldn't charge customers thousands to be testers. So they call it a Level 2 system, allude to it being something that can do more than any other Level 2 or 2+ system available, then hide behind 'the driver needs to pay attention and in control', while having some of the least effective driver awareness guards in place.

Cause Musk is a petulant child.

That case didn't even fine Tesla. Stock paid to Musk was returned to the company. The funds lost to legal fees and damages could have been avoided if the legal communications to stockholders had been open about Musk's relationships with board members as was required.

Eyesight may have prevented crashes for me. Subaru doesn't imply it is something more than Level 2, so my attention was still on the road in front of me.

Would your Tesla not have braked if it was just operating on AP? Do you think your 2017 Prime would have not intervened?

 

It doesn't help when the MEDIA calls Autopilot and FSD self driving, even in articles complaining on its technology...

 

Not sure about Autopilot but the car was crossing me perpendicularly, so my Prius Prime's radar might not have even seen it, thinking it's background noise.

 

Investigators and prosecutors typically don't release such evidence to the public at this stage, before trial, let alone before any charging decisions.

This doesn't involve police body-cam video, or surveillance video that could help identify suspects.

As already described, those scenarios don't fit this case, so quit trying to pass the buck by smearing the cyclist.

I'm not re-finding it now, because it is not mentioned in the particular past news items I linked in this thread. But I seem to remember from other news items that there had been a vehicle in between this Tesla and motorcycle. That vehicle took the Echo Lake exit ramp, prompting the following Tesla to accelerate up towards the next full-size vehicle ahead, not detecting the skinny but still in-lane motorcycle in between.

 

agreed, but a tesla driver not paying attention is no different than any other impaired person, it's just media hype

 

Drivers without ADAS are not being lulled into inattention by the hype of how good their ADAS system is.

 

I suppose the ignorant didn't notice that the comments were turned off regarding the 60 Minute hit piece. Had the comments been left turned on, virtually all of those accident clips would be properly/quickly debunked as either moron showing offs, drunks, suicide attempts, driver inattentiveness, Autopilot not engaged etc.
But where's the clickbait drama in that. Nowhere in the video do the 60 Minute folks talk about number of accidents per million miles vs other car brands with and without their safety systems. So it's all pretty much meaningless
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no, they are being lulled by phones, drugs, lack of sleep, daydreaming and etc.
speeding and aggresive driving are a whole 'nuther thing

 

I'll add to the "hype of how good de ADAS is" but you won't find me eating, sleeping or doing any other activity than monitoring the drive when FSD is engaged.

I went for a Ottawa/Toronto round road trip, 450 km each way, using 12.3.6 last May. My only disengagements were when I wanted to quickly pass slower vehicles on regional roads and during downpours on highways because the auto speed was maxed too low. Beside the heavy rain events, I never had such a relaxing long drive. Boring regional roads and highways were, well, boring. Small cities we crossed were handled perfectly. Very impressed with its performance.

In Toronto, that Friday night, we went through downtown to go eat and the downtown traffic didn't phase it. The only road I deactivated it was on a road under resurfacing where manhole covers were protruding too much. Cyclists, pedestrians (including beggars between two lanes), cars halfway out of driveways, tramways were handled perfectly. I got honk once though because the car didn't go through on a red. Well, that's Toronto for you lol.

We did many trips in busy downtown Toronto on Saturday. Wow, my only interventions were because I wanted to take a different route/lane than the one suggested and also when someone cut me off but that's by habit. I'm sure the car would have reacted to it too.

We also went to Vaughan for dinner and again, no drama. People who were with me were impressed by how it drove, with zero intervention.

We went watching some nice neighborhoods over there and drove in FSD without a destination set. It did some unexpected left and right unprotected turns in the neighborhood as if it knew we were sight visiting lol. We weren't expecting it to do that. Made us laugh.

Sunday, we did the opposite 450 km, 5.5 hours trip and it also was uneventful, even during downpour on regional roads.

Yeah, it requires supervision but that's far less than the micro management that manual driving requires. It made those two long drives so much more relaxing than my previous trips and allowed me to focus on the safety aspect of the driving in downtown Toronto and not the traveling itself, which it handled almost perfectly.

There, you have it. My anecdotal experience with FSD in different traffic scenarios. Yeah, being so good in can lull someone into inattention with possible catastrophic result, but is that the fault of the system or the responsibility of the person behind the wheel?

BTW, in all my 35 years of driving, I had one at fault accident. That accident was caused because I was looking at the radio when changing station (old still push button) on a icy road with someone in front that I noticed too late that he was stopping to turn into a driveway. Distractions happen for a number of reasons and were responsible for about 10% of all the car related fatalities in 2022.

Yearly snapshot

 

one concern for myself only, when you're not driving, can you be as prepared for an emergency maneuver as when you are actively in complete control of the car?
i even find one pedal driving reduces my reaction time to emergency braking. that might just be age, idk.
i'll be happier when i can sit in the back and let the car do everything.

 

Robots, except Commander Data, can’t think. So have to wait about 300 years on this.

 

My focus while FSD is engaged is more broad than just ahead of me with quick glances in the rear view mirror. For example, I might focus more at that car on my right at an intersection (thinking it's about to run the red light) and less at the car in front of me and my green light as the car is doing that for me. This could potentially save me from being t-boned. Another example is when stopping, I might glance longer in the rear view mirror to see if the cars behind me have seen me slowing down.

I don't find that one pedal driving has slowed my reaction time to emergency braking. In both cases (manual braking and one pedal), you have to move your foot from the accelerator to the brake pedal, with possibly the exception of hovering your foot over the brake pedal expecting to suddenly having to brake. Well, with FSD, you could technically drive the whole time with your foot over the brake pedal in case of an emergency braking is needed lol.

 

That is one of the best observations/points I have seen on the subject.

Think the answer is obvious - no you can't be as prepared for an emergency maneuver.