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Gasket Masters replaced my HG - next steps?

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Alex Lockhart, Sep 10, 2024.

  1. Alex Lockhart

    Alex Lockhart New Member

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    2013 Prius v wagon
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    Five
    This is the next (and hopefully last!) chapter in the story from my thread started two weeks ago:
    Blown head gasket, should I swap engines or... ? | PriusChat

    In short, I had a blown head gasket and too-high quotes from the only dealership in the area and an independent shop. I posted here and thanks to several of you, decided to drive 6 hours to Manteca, CA, spend the night in a hotel, have them replace it the next day, and drive home that evening. So I spent most of two days and around $2300 all in, drove around 700 miles round trip, and now I have a new head gasket on an old-ish car. I hope to keep the car at least 5 years and maybe another 100k, so what should I do to increase my odds?

    The car already had the brake booster replaced about 6 months ago (8 months after the TSB expired that would have made it free). About 3 months ago when the P0301 misfire first popped up, I did lots of maintenance work: cleaned the whole EGR system and the intake manifold, cleaned fuel injectors, swapped ignition coils, replaced spark plugs, changed coolant, replaced the PCV valve and added an oil catch can, etc. We've had it about 4 years and 40k miles, and I've noticed a very small drop on the oil dipstick between changing it every 8-10k or so (before the HG problem), barely enough to register. Also, both the dealership and the independent shop said the timing cover gasket was leaking a tiny bit, so I have reason to believe it's not burning oil.

    To prolong the HG life, it seems like I should do the following every 50k miles: clean the EGR system and IM (especially the EGR passages), change coolant and spark plugs. Plus change oil every 5k instead of 10k, and of course empty the OCC when changing oil. Are those necessary? Am I missing anything? Also, I have a plausible theory (thanks @Mendel Leisk for spreading the word) for why the EGR system design leads to localized overheating in cylinder 1 and 2 and causes the HG failure in that spot, but I don't understand why more-frequent oil changes and coolant changes help prevent HG failure? What happens to the oil and coolant with more miles that would affect the HG?

    Also, for anyone curious, here's my experience with Gasket Masters:
    I called (the Manteca location directly, not the 800 number) twice before driving there, first to get questions answered and make a plan, then to let them know I was coming and ask details about the work - they use Felpro HG and all others Toyota, new head bolts, they change valve stem seals and lap valves, measure cylinder height to test for bent rods, measure flatness on head and block, etc. Only $2150 including tax!

    I arrived after 10pm, spent the night in the cheap hotel right across the street, and got the car there just after 8am when they opened. Manteca is a working class town and Gasket Masters has a tiny space - just one bay and a tiny office in a strip of auto and machine shops, no signs. Manuel put my phone number and name in the notes app on his phone and called me to be sure the number was right, took the key and said they'd have it done by the end of the day - no paperwork, no systems, no pretense. They had just started a car that had been there the day before, and after a few hours I checked out of the hotel and walked over to put things in the car. They hadn't started my car yet, Manuel was on the phone when I walked over, and just pulled my key out of his pocket so I could put stuff in - like a friend instead of a customer. They were finishing the other car, I walked about 20 minutes to the public library with my laptop. They hadn't called by 2pm when I had lunch, so I walked back and they had the HG on already, and were squirting goo for the FIPG on the timing chain cover. He did it so fast I almost missed it, fingers shaped carefully and following the gun to shape and smooth the bead. Then he put it on without help, a moment to line it up and then a single smooth motion, setting bolts in place with one hand while holding the cover with the other, then zipping them down with the electric ratchet - he was torquing them less than 2 minutes after squirting the FIPG goo on the cover. I was there asking questions around 10 minutes, and the 3 guys there were all answering as they worked, very chill and joking around. It was obvious that they've done hundreds of these and are super familiar with the Prius engine. It reminded me of when people ride with me and see me do a difficult parallel parking job in one quick move, and I have to remind them that I used to be a long haul truck driver, so I can chitchat while doing difficult driving maneuvers, and these guys can chitchat while doing this one particular car repair.

    At least I hope that's true! I left just after 4pm, having paid on their Square phone app and carrying a duplicate of the one-page written job as my receipt and warranty. They don't have a computer system or office phone or anything - it's literally just three guys answering their smartphone and getting people in and out so fast they don't seem to need any system more than Manuel putting my key in his pocket. I'm keeping a close eye on the coolant level for the next several months, and will change oil in the next few thousand miles, and will be kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop for a while. For now, I'm just glad to have reasons to trust my car again!
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    They’ve got LOTS of 3rd Gens to hone their skills. (y)

    More frequent oil changes are mainly to help preserve the block (pistons, cylinders) I think. Until (roughly) 2015 model year, Toyota used “low-tension” piston rings. There’s a TSB for runaway oil consumption, the crux of which is piston/ring replacement. Another option is to just swap in a new short block, which will have the revised pistons/rings.

    Toyota spec for engine coolant changes may be sufficient. The first is 10 years or 100k miles, whichever comes first, then 5 years or 50k miles thereafter.
     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, Sep 10, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2024
    Alex Lockhart likes this.
  3. V Sport Wagon

    V Sport Wagon Member

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    Why stop there? You have the head off..replace with a Fel Pro gasket and new or re-manned head and freshen everything. Or was that implied?
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would use the Toyota gasket kit. Was just talking about oil consumption, recourses.
     
  5. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Welcome Alex;
    The fact is that you got more than 10 years out of the last HG. If your only expecting 5 years out of the replacement - your managing your expectations. The only thing I would add is use good quality full synthetic motor oil. They flow better, resist heat damage/breakdown and keep the engine from slugging up - therefore the engine runs cleaner and cooler. IMHO, helpful in preventing EGR clog-up.

    Hope this helps....
     
  6. Alex Lockhart

    Alex Lockhart New Member

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    2013 Prius v wagon
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    Five
    Thanks, that makes sense. I know mine has the low-tension rings and many people have significant oil consumption, but even with a slight seep-type leak at the timing chain cover (should be fixed with the HG replacement) I've noticed that the oil level drops an almost-unnoticeable amount between previous 8k-9k oil changes, so I'm hoping that doesn't develop. But now that I have an OCC installed, I'll have another metric for oil loss/consumption when I empty it. The guys at Gasket Masters said more frequent changes should help prevent the rings from sticking (producing lots of blowby) which makes sense, but is a different problem than the low-tension rings.

    And yes, the recommended 50k coolant change interval now that I'm past the first change is about what I've heard recommended here also, and will plan to do. It's partly just my own curiosity, but I don't see how longer coolant intervals would make a HG more likely to fail? Or is there a different reason?
     
  7. Alex Lockhart

    Alex Lockhart New Member

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    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Gasket Masters uses all Toyota gaskets except the head gasket which is Fel-Pro and apparently better at sealing despite minor warping, so that should be all I need for a long time. Since it's never consumed oil in the 3-ish years and 40k-ish miles we've had it, I'm not expecting to have to replace the short block, pistons, etc.
     
  8. Alex Lockhart

    Alex Lockhart New Member

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    2013 Prius v wagon
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    Five
    Thanks, I'm hoping/expecting the same, especially now that I have an OCC, cleaned EGR and IM, and will clean the EGR and IM every 30k miles or so from now on. I'm really hoping for 8 years or so with no further major work (and able to sell for standard KBB type rates) but 5 years is kind of the minimum that wouldn't leave me unhappy with this car.

    Right, I've been using full synthetic in all my cars for around 20 years now - I worked with a shop owner back then who was an Amsoil dealer and evangelist, and I was converted. I've been using Mobil 1 for years now since I don't have a hookup for Amsoil anymore. And since Toyota specifies full synthetic and this car had all the work done at the recommended intervals by Toyota dealers before we bought it, I assume it's had full synthetic its whole life.

    I've heard plenty of people recommend replacing the water pump and thermostat when replacing a HG, which kind of makes sense if the failure was caused by general overheating due to insufficient coolant flow. But my understanding is that the typical failure on these engines is between cylinders 1 and 2, due (probably) to temp differentials between cylinders caused by partly-clogged EGR passages inside the IM, with cylinder 1 having the longest EGR pathway and thus the most clogging (particulates condense in the relatively cooler IM, more so with longer passages) so the far side of the engine from the EGR entry at cylinder 4 gets less EGR gasses and runs a bit hotter than the close side. And I saw my old HG after Gasket Masters took it out - on top there was a large gap between cylinder 1 and the water jacket, a small gap between cylinder 2 and the water jacket, a small gap between cylinders 1 and 2, and on the bottom a small gap between cylinder 1 and the water jacket. Combined with the P0301 code, it all seems to add up in my head - one side of the engine was frequently a little hotter than the other, causing too much stress on the head, which expanded in a way that allowed the HG failure right there. And none of that suggests an overall overheat condition, whether due to a failing water pump or thermostat that won't fully open. I don't have Techstream or anything else to monitor the temp sensors as I drive so I can't know for sure, but... I'm still wondering what's the benefit of a new water pump or thermostat in this case?