No more preservatives

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 26, 2025 at 4:09 PM.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: RFK Jr’s new vaccine panel votes against preservative in flu shots in shock move | US news | The Guardian

    A critical federal vaccine panel has recommended against seasonal influenzavaccines containing a specific preservative – . . .

    The panel was unilaterally remade by health secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr, avaccine skeptic who has urged against the use of thimerosal despite a lack of evidence of real-world harm.
    . . .

    Guess pharmacies are going to have large freezers like the frozen food section in grocery stores. FYI, flu (and other vaccines and meds) are suddenly going to become more expensive.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Jun 26, 2025 at 4:09 PM
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2025 at 4:14 PM
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Since some may not click and read, "Thimerosal is used in about 5% of multidose seasonal influenza vials, and is known to be more cost effective than single-dose formulations. It is unclear how the vote will impact flu vaccine availability before the upcoming flu season, particularly for clinics that rely on such formulations.

    Thimerosal has been used as a preservative in vaccines since before the second world war. In the early 2000s, thimerosal was removed from all routine pediatric and most adult vaccines as a precautionary measure – a decision that was criticized by experts who argued it sent mixed messages about a preservative that had not been found to cause harm. The issue has since been considered settled by mainstream medicine.

    ...

    Repeated, large studies conducted across several countries have found no association between thimerosal and neurological effects. A presentation from CDC career scientists that was initially expected to go through some of this substantial data was removed before the panel reconvened on Thursday."

    The mercury in thimerosal is in a different chemical structure than the mercury that causes harm. Banning it is like banning table salt because sodium azide is an acute poison.
     
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  3. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Senior Member

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    From what I read the preservative allows multidoses to be stored in a single vile. You can still make the same vaccine in a single dose vile that doesn't need a preservative. So no more 2 liters...you can only make a sell single cans of soda pop. Also the combo MMR vaccine they want to get rid of. You can still get each one as a single...just not together. So MMR would be ok...but not the MMRV. I think RFK wants to separate them as well. The real vaccine danger to big Pharma is if they get to stop ALUM from being used.....which is a lot of them.....and they don't have a substitute yet.
     
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  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    This solely because the guy in charge long ago wrote a book about this preservative that he thinks is the source of why vaccines are unsafe even though he has zero clinical evidence to back his claim and his book was dismissed as dishonest junk. But I bet he's suddenly selling lots of those books again now that he's disbanded actual scientific review on the USDA's vaccine panel. This has forced the RX industry and Insurance companies to set up their own review process to decide what safe and what's not.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I've heard the feeling splitting up a multi-vaccine is less risky expressed before. I say feeling cause splitting up one shot to two or more just means more exposure to whatever additive the person is worried about.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "Repeated, large studies conducted across several countries have found no association between thimerosal and neurological effects."
    I cited a review study about this in COVID thread. When we were discussing Wakefield.

    "The mercury in thimerosal is in a different chemical structure" Ya, ethyl mercury is dismissed from body while methyl mercury hangs around and effs you up. We need a better analogy than sodium azide though. Whew.

    ==

    ALUM is used as adjuvant in several vaccines. Remains just a bit murky:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d42859-020-00011-w
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Cause we need sodium ions with chloride in order to breath? Or cause the azide part is the trouble maker?

    My first impulse was to talk about hydrogen, oxygen, and water. Perhaps fat vs water soluble vitamins would work?
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Na, none of those seem better, There might not be a useful analogy. Mercury the element might be unique as it effs you up as Hg(0) vapor (bare), with methyl dangles, but not with ethyl dangles.

    Mercurochrome as antiseptic was straight-up Hg made soluble with some stuff. Antiseptic because bacteria (etc.) use enzymes (also!) Hg effs with sulfur amino acids in enzymes. We don't paint wounds red with that any more.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Thought “thimerosal” sounded familiar: from my contact lense days, saline bottles started sporting disclaimers about being free of the stuff, somewhere along the way. Overblown?
     
  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I would personally applaud the cleaning up of our vaccine and food supply.

    The type of crapola and nonsense ingredients in much of our medicine and food would be a constant important contributor to our chronic health issues.

    Here is an older article from 5 years ago calling out the types of nonsense put in medical products

    Scientists Warn 'Inactive' Ingredients in Drugs Are Not as Harmless as You'd Think : ScienceAlert
    "The vast majority of oral medications contain ingredients that could cause adverse reactions in patients, new research suggests.
    The culprits are so-called "inactive" ingredients: hundreds of thousands of different additives that help make up drugs but are not the medicine's main functional component."


    I do hope our Health Department includes a concerted effort to eliminate pesticide pollution of our food supply also- or at the very least require warning labels and pesticide testing of food

    The Environmental and Health Impacts of Pesticides | Earth.Org
     
    #10 John321, Jun 28, 2025 at 10:09 AM
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2025 at 11:33 AM
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    From studies and decades of use, it sure seems overblown. A reaction to an ill-informed and maybe panicked public. Like gluten free labels on deodorant and vodka.

    My analogies with other substances above may not be precisely perfect, but are submitted with the presumed understanding level of the public i was trying to reach.
    I thought this was going to be about food upon seeing the thread title. Some of those preservatives could be problematic(I haven't dug into the subject), but others are safe, if perhaps unknown to most. Tocopherol is used as a preservative; it's a form of vitamin E.

    The appeal of organic foods was in what it lacks from the general food supply.
     
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I suspect there is a reasonably long list of alternative preservatives.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sodium azide

    Have some at work. A little bit is used in some buffers and solutions to prevent microbe growth. I opted to just keep such stuff in the fridge.

    Plenty of other options that are safe for human contact and ingestion.
     
    #13 Trollbait, Jun 28, 2025 at 12:22 PM
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2025 at 6:12 PM
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