SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

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  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We benefit from having 2 posts asserting knowledge different from 2 mortality studies I did link above. We'd benefit more if they said how their different knowledge came about. A 'show your work' thing.

    No pressure of course. Wisps and innuendo are fully admissible under this big tent.
     
    #7221 tochatihu, Jul 27, 2025 at 2:33 AM
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "how many were young and healthy? do we ignore them?" from @bisco

    Not ignored. "Healthy" evades simple generalization. But from

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0

    O’Driscoll et al. 2021.png
    Notice first this is 2021, so first wave only. IFR means '%dying among those found to have it'. The vertical IFR axis is base 10 logarithmic. Doing injustice to details, 1% of those >65 years died and 0.02% those <65 years died. Both % were smaller in subsequent COVID waves, and linking studies of that would illuminate.

    ==
    Here and elsewhere people consult horoscopes, or may do, and I call that their privilege. To make a (first) visit to epidemiological research and find nothing more than astrology there? Sad to say, you missed a lot.
     
    #7222 tochatihu, Jul 27, 2025 at 3:26 AM
  3. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    I missed nothing. My observations came from personal experience, family, friends, co-workers and fellow citizens. I initially believed and went along with the reporting, followed all guidelines and mandates and made my conclusions based on the facts as they presented themselves...and continue to this day. SARS-CoV-2 is still here, it still spreads, there in no medical prophylactic and there is no cure.

    Your horse lost dirt doctor.
     
    #7223 frodoz737, Jul 27, 2025 at 4:37 AM
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    And if that's what epidemiological researchers were relying on, they would be casting horoscopes.
     
    #7224 ChapmanF, Jul 27, 2025 at 8:45 AM
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i remember when the local childrens hospital was overwhelmed with cases
     
    #7225 bisco, Jul 27, 2025 at 1:29 PM
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If we are (as I hope) actually in the twilight of COVID, we might start work on its obituary. And forward thoughts.

    How many died where and when? Several data sources are available and not (I think) wildly disparate.

    Against which there are vaccines.

    First (ever!) vaccines based on mRNA present 90+% efficacy. Disruptive technology. Inject any mRNA naked and poof it’s gone. Extracellular enzymes are always on the alert against. About a decade before COVID, Big Pharma first explored concealing mRNA within lipids. Then COVID came, Operation Warp $peed came, and mRNA vaccines aimed at this virus’ particular surface bits came. These vaccines are convenient to revise against any other virus’ particular surface bits, if they come to call. It may be unsurprising this disruptive technology is argued against. In this case apparently without scientific support. Workflow for this type of vaccine is particularly amenable to revisions tracking viral changes. Not listing these COVID vaccine varieties here, as they are pretty well known.

    Adenovirus vector vaccines. JANSSEN (JNJ-78436735 or Ad26.COV2.S), ASTRAZENECA (AZD-1222 or ChAdOx1 nCoV-19), SPUTNIK V (Gam-COVID-Vac) and SPUTNIK LIGHT, CONVIDECIA (Ad5-nCoV). Against COVID their efficacy as a group is in the 70s%. That and name list are from:

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8805485/

    I’m not a fan of Adenovirus vector vaccines and have said so here before. Adenovirus are considered harmless, and are used because they are good at replicating in humans. Yhere are good alternatives and I prefer them. Injecting a live capable virus does not appeal. Workflow for this type of vaccine requires lab growing Adenovirus and modifying them, so they are not highly agile.

    Protein fragment vaccines are older technology. Grow COVID virus, blast it, purify desired proteins (in this case Spike) and inject those. Novavax NVX-CoV2373 (Covovax) is the only ‘fragment’ vaccine I know for COVID, but there may be others. Efficacy is in the 90s%; best showing from the old school. Hepatitis B, HPV, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping-cough vaccines are also these. Workflow requires lab growing COVID, virus so they are also not highly agile against new variants.

    Disabled virus vaccines are really old school. Grow the buggers, blast them, and inject all the bits to stimulate immune-system preparation/wariness. China has Sinovac and Sinopharm and in India, Bharat Biotech’s Covaxin. As a group they show 60s% efficacy but with wide variation.

    Those wanting other ref links to read on efficacy could easily find without help from me. I tire.

    A more dedicated reporter would long list other disabled virus vaccines, but I offer only those against Influenza. Workflow problems with it are just as in other virus-growing plans.

    ==
    I have had Sinovac vaccine 3 times and never had COVID, That cannot be separated from personal efforts (masking) to avoid inhaling trouble. Better to disregard my N=1.

    We hear of a multiply (mRNA) vaccinated person n US supposing multiple COVID infections, and that’s sad. But without reports of Influenza or RSV antibody tests, we don’t know what actually happened. Yet I am happy to have imagination have its sway.

    ==

    After COVID obituary will come our next viral challenge. Bird flu seems to have failed breaking through to humans - great! Supposing no others will follow - not great. Oh you.

    mRNA and protein fragments vaccines worked best against COVID, with former having shorter workflows. When the next trouble comes, mostl Rich Countries will surely rise to challenge. Even if it now might appear otherwise, US will as well.
     
    #7226 tochatihu, Jul 28, 2025 at 12:01 AM
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Multiply mRNA-vaccinated person here, with 4 cases of COVID in the last 4 years, according to at-home rapid tests. All 4 cases since I mostly resumed normal activities mostly unmasked, including theatre and church functions and the like. Did not like it any of the 4 times, but never close to any breathing difficulty or need for any medical visit.

    I do not regard this as a sign the vaccines "didn't work."
     
    #7227 ChapmanF, Jul 28, 2025 at 12:33 AM
  8. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Imagine if you will..your mechanic keeps changing the same part on your Prius to fix it...and it's still broke. How many times do you let this happen before deciding your mechanic doesn't have a clue what they are doing?
     
    #7228 frodoz737, Jul 28, 2025 at 4:30 PM
  9. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    THX...2X post edited.
     
    #7229 frodoz737, Jul 28, 2025 at 4:30 PM
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2025 at 5:16 PM
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Interesting analogy, but I'm not sure even posting it twice makes it apt.

    My immune system wasn't 'broke' before I had the COVID vaccine, and it isn't 'broke' now.

    It does what it's s'posed to, any time those viruses bind to me. They are out there, circulating in the community, so that happens now and then. (I wouldn't mind having a deflector shield that would shoo them all away from me in the air, but that's not what the human immune system is.)

    My immune system would also have done its level best if I had caught COVID before any vaccination, but I'm glad I never had to find out what that would have looked like. There've been other people in my age group for whom it didn't look great.
     
    #7230 ChapmanF, Jul 28, 2025 at 4:42 PM
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Double posts are never intentional. It is a metaphor not analogy. But it is not a metaphor for vaccination, it is a metaphor for therapeutics.

    There is room here for an harangue on therapeutics.
     
    #7231 tochatihu, Jul 28, 2025 at 4:54 PM
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I haven't used Paxlovid every time, but the couple times I did it was impressive. That's all the harangue I've got.
     
    #7232 ChapmanF, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:01 PM
  13. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    How did Paxlovid work for you?
    I assume it lessens the symptoms and shortens the time you feel bad?

    Like you I always got the Covid vaccinations (Pfizer) and only had mild cases of the Covid but did think about going to the doc and getting a prescription for Paxlovid.
     
    #7233 John321, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:13 PM
  14. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    If you drink enough OTC "cough medicine" it makes you somewhat "feel better" too. Still doesn't kill or prevent the bug that gave you the cough though.
     
    #7234 frodoz737, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:31 PM
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Still stumbling. Paxlovid blocks viral replication. OTC cough medicines do not. If they did, they could not be sold OTC.
     
    #7235 tochatihu, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:37 PM
  16. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    That was a rhetorical Sir...however...a warm and fuzzy is all the COVID shots provided as well.
     
    #7236 frodoz737, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:51 PM
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Oh, gosh, it's like something they'd have at Hogwarts.

    The full course is ten doses: 12 hours apart for five days.

    Symptoms recede within like two hours of taking the first dose.

    Of course the same warnings as with an antibiotic: if you stop early just because you feel so much better, It Would Be Bad.

    You do feel the symptoms making a bit of a comeback just before each next dose is scheduled. The number of doses, ten, seems to be just about the right number of whac-a-mole iterations to do the job.

    It might not be necessary to prearrange a prescription for it. The couple times I've used it, I've just called my doc's number, typically in the evening when I've done an at-home test, and whether I get my doc or the after-hours doc on call I just say "my at-home test says COVID" and the doc can phone a scrip over to the closest 24-hour pharmacy and I go pick it up at the drive-through.

    You qualify if you have any of several risk factors for a more-severe case, and just being of a certain age is one of those factors, so it's an easy call if you are.

    However, check with your insurance, because for a while it was in a definitely-fully-covered category, and lately has been moved to a might-cost-you-something category. I think on my current insurance I'd have to pay around $600. That's why I skipped it the most recent time.

    It's effective when started within five days of symptom onset. So there's a little window to decide how your trajectory is feeling. My most recent had the brunt of symptoms early and then steady day-by-day improvement, so I felt skipping the paxlovid would be ok.

    The case before that, I had steady improvement for a few days and then a surprise turn for the worse, and I phoned in and said "ok, no more messin' around, write me the scrip!".

    I don't really know what the story was that time, but wonder if I might have been the birthplace of a new mutation.
     
    #7237 ChapmanF, Jul 28, 2025 at 5:51 PM
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2025 at 5:56 PM
    bisco likes this.
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    10 points for a harry potter allusion
     
    #7238 bisco, Jul 28, 2025 at 8:41 PM
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Descending gently under a 'rhetorical' parachute is fine by me. But but next time @frodoz wants to say what he actually means, DO it. We're here for you.
     
    #7239 tochatihu, Jul 29, 2025 at 1:18 AM
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