Vaccine provocation

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Nov 11, 2025.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Retired now, my work career centered around Operating System Programming. Diagnosis of faults anywhere from transistors through any application program. As such, you must master facts and data from empirical data. This is what the Age of Enlightenment brought and it works. But I never forgot how brief the time, the few generations that separate us from the Dark Ages.

    So I'm relaxed when normal medication trials are properly conducted but fully aware of the 'stream' of advertising for 'home remedies.' All we can hope is that the avoidable tragedies of non-empirical claims reduce their probability of reproduction while acknowledging it won't happen fast enough to witness in our time frames.

    So the anti-empiricism of a cartoon:
    To understand why is to comprehend the different disease mechanisms and what it takes for each variant.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Maybe it was the roses

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    WAIT!!

    You mean we are NOT in the dark ages now??!!

    kris
     
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  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Have a friend who I visited with this week. ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease). Told me of sending a vial of his blood to Atlanta for genetic re-engineering. Helping.

    Not within my lifetime but I hope yours, they will do this for an increasing number of diseases. And we will live longer and better lives.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There is a gender bias, ~90% for younger women:
    I would suggest it is "less bad." I do note that the silly cartoon misuses the terms of empirical science to lie and deceive. If it were just someone trying to rationalize their poor choices, fine by me. Remember the thread title, "Vaccine provocation."

    We started with another fairly innocuous thread where I mentioned the typical Fall tasks, inflating tires and vaccinations. I don't remember if I also mentioned getting a Fall and Spring oil change. Regardless, it soon was trolled by an anti-vaxer which was almost as bad as putting RFK Jr in charge of the CDC and FDA.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My flu shot was November 22 and typically provides maximum effect in about 2-3 weeks or about December 13 th or about week 49. Close enough!

    Bob Wilson
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i saw that chart, 'superfly', and the wrong vaccine. but it is still much better than no vaccine
     
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  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Blood for genetic re-engineering in response to ALS. This is an amazing thing I do not understand well.

    The most numerous cells in blood are erythrocytes = red blood cells with about 5 million per cubic millimeter of blood. Tiny! they of course are oxygen haulers. Second are platelets that are cell fragments, with about quarter million per cubic millimeter. Neither of these contain nuclei which means they do not have the gene (or genes) that cause ALS. They are uninformative (even while being downright handy..)

    Thus the only genomic information in blood is in leukocytes = white blood cells. Main function is in immune system obviously, but here they would seem to be used for DNA 'readout' a new and novel function. Every nucleate cell in body contains one's complete genome, and I guess these are simplest to extract.

    ==
    A different aspect of white blood cells has seemed odd to me. Largest are 2 to 3 times larger than red blood cells. One's smallest capillaries are so small that red blood cells go through 'single file'. So, what do white blood cells do? As a guess, they deform.

    Squoosh through.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Searching quickly online, apparently they do change shape, elongate as needed.

    They can also slip through the vessel walls to migrate to the sites of injuries and infections, in a process called diapedesis or leukocyte extravasation. Wikipedia has a much longer description than I want to read tonight.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Got to get back into the habit of using hand sanitizers when out and about.
     
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  11. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Noticing an increase in mask wearing.
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Same.
     
  13. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    The ones I see are masked outdoors or driving their cars. I was in a St Vincent thrift shop yesterday that is a small store and it was packed. No one had a mask including me. I think I got Covid last time from the same situation. Fully vaccinated, thank God, at the time I got Covid.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The masks do help with the low temps. Just hope the walking sick are also using them.
     
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  15. futurist

    futurist Member

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    Yup -- in Japan & East Asia, been customary to wear masks when sick for generations (tho compliance for different reasons than the West and esp us in US can be arsed to)... but can't deny utility warding off the cold's a good motivator, when its minus Centigrade outside.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    went to the docs today, only me and my doc had masks. mrs b said she has seen a few when shopping.

    daughter went to family new years eve party with the sniffles. so far, 3 out of 10 have upper respiratory infections
     
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  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    HHS engaged in a bit of provocation of its own by un-mandating several pediatric vaccines (see any new media, probably). This was based on a study apparently not posted on HHS website (I looked). It might be summarized in a figure posted here:

    Viewpoint: The myth of an over-vaccinated America: The US DOES follow global consensus | CIDRAP

    Which brings us to CIDRAP and a few external views on their work

    HHS announces unprecedented overhaul of US childhood vaccine schedule | CIDRAP

    Scientists Release Data Backing Hepatitis B Vaccines for Newborns Ahead of Crucial Vaccine Panel Vote | Scientific American

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-03625-0

    Not Sure Where to Turn for Trusted Vaccine Guidance? | MedPage Today
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    #178 bisco, Jan 5, 2026 at 9:03 PM
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2026 at 9:12 PM
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's an article I wish I could like more: it seems to be describing a simple bar chart in a couple ways that wouldn't be how I'd have described it, and I'm not sure they even needed to.

    If I'm looking at the same chart, I'm thinking "United States the upper bound" would do; Israel, France, and Germany appear to be between the lower and upper bounds.

    Um, maybe there could be some way they justify that, maybe by giving the statistical parameters of what they're calling "the distribution", and why it would make sense to choose them that way. Without some kind of argument or note like that, I don't see how this bullet point could be called a "key takeaway"; it isn't what I would immediately take away from glancing at a chart where the US seems at least as far above the median as Denmark seems below it.

    This frustrates me; it seems like they could probably advance the basic arguments they're making (like "be guided by outcomes" and "recognize differences in social structure"), without having to say things that make me go o_O while looking at the chart.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    @fuzzy1 , if you like CIDRAP, they do accept charitable donations:
    Support CIDRAP | CIDRAP

    --
    It is apparently accurate that Denmark requires fewer pediatric vaccinations than (previous) US policy. I suggest that the more useful metric is overall vaccination uptake rates in all countries. With focus on stronger economies. I have every reason to suppose that all the 'questioned' vaccines are available in Denmark. With National healthcare, they may be inexpensive or free.

    Disease prevalence is jointly driven by vaccination uptake rates, efficacy of particular vaccines, and other public health factors including proper mask wearing.