How much is your local "Trump at the Pump Tax?"

I can think of a lot of worse places I would like to send him.

 

When was the last time you owned such a sedan? Wasn't that at least 3 Prii ago? Even Accords and Camrys are now hitting 50 MPG.

Away from home this week, I'm having to pay $0.39 - 0.40 / kWh at L2 outlets for most of my PHEV recharges, plus a session fee. (A few have been free, though I haven't been at any of them long enough for "full tank". Free L1 at just the first lodging, no L1 allowed since.) All the adjacent DCFCs are charging $0.59/kWh.

At least one major electric utility in my region, PSE, already has increased rates since the war began. Though whether any war-related increases could have been processed through the state utilities commission bureaucracy by now is another matter.

 

My last two ICE:

• 1991 Camry - lost in rain slick off ramp. Manual transmission. Replaced by used, 2003 Prius.
• 2001 Echo - wife’s going for groceries car. Automatic transmission.

Both bought new. The Echo was sold to a coworker when dealer offer was too low.

Bob Wilson

 

50 is... high. I rent cars often. I can easily get low-mid 40s out of the recently discontinued Malibu & Camry, and the current model Altima & Sonata. Have not tried the current (hybrid only) Camry. I'd expect that to be quite high. Not sure I've ever driven an Accord; Hondas are rare in rental fleets.

When was the last time they reduced the rates? Just mentioning it to point out a difference between retail gasoline pricing and subscriber electric rates: Gasoline fluctuates up and down, electricity only ever goes up in my experience.

 

agreed..... governmental regulations, "green" initiatives and mandates for utility renewable energies have caused electric rates to skyrocket with no end in sight for additional increases.

Exploding energy prices in California – CFACT

"California is the epicenter of green energy in the United States.
Energy prices are skyrocketing in California. The state’s electricity, gasoline, and natural gas prices are amongst the nation’s highest and rising. Green energy policies are the primary cause for high and escalating California energy prices."

 

All energy delivery methods come with regulatory baggage. I don't think that's particularly relevant though.

The bigger issue is that if you don't like the price of gasoline at Exxon, you can go across the street to ARCO or any of a fair list of competitors.

With live utility electricity, you're locked into a monopoly. Maybe not a perfect monopoly, but a structure that has all the monopolistic features that keep your rates moving in one direction only.

 

exactly.... and who controls the regulations, required green initiatives and mandates for percent of energy from renewable resources for these "monopolies"?

 

The 35 mpg you mentioned in your earlier calculation, is not a good benchmark for sedans anymore:



Also, their smaller siblings today are usually larger now than the big children were several decades ago:

 

I know each US State does it their own way, but many follow similar arrangements. In Pennsylvania our legislature created a Public Utility Commission to oversee electrical suppliers among other public utilities.

It doesn't appear to be much different in Kentucky or California for that matter.

 

agree with everything you have stated .......
has the Federal Government ever affected energy prices?
something to consider:

Obama Admitted That Electricity Prices Would Skyrocket Under His Policies - IER

 

Remembering “Solyndra” – How Many $570M Green Energy Failures Are Hidden Inside Biden’s Infrastructure Proposal?

Most important point:
"When the government tries to pick winners and losers in the marketplace, like the Obama-Biden administration did in 2009, taxpayers often get to foot the bill."

Solyndra – $570 million taxpayer dollars wasted
Abound Solar – $401 million taxpayer dollars wasted
Calisolar – $280 million taxpayer dollars wasted
Fisker Automotive – $193 million taxpayer dollars wasted
A123 Systems – $132 million taxpayer dollars wasted
ABB, Inc. – $12.6 million taxpayer dollars wasted

 

The Institute for Energy Research is a sock puppet for the oil industry, with specific ties to Charles Koch.

You'd have to work hard to find a more biased source of information on this topic.

 

when faced with facts;
put on the blinders and scream prejudice, bias or racism trying to discount others- anything except to try to understand where the other party is coming from.

What a shame, pretty good discussion going..........
I respect your opinions and realize you may think differently than me - I certainly enjoyed talking to you and exchanging views I'll disconnect as we've appeared to have hit on a triggering event here.

Barack Obama Quotes About Electricity | A-Z Quotes

 

Well, I don't know about this trigger business. I'll admit that I'm struggling to see what point you're trying to make here.

Is there a particular significance to the quote you posted? If I have it right, we're talking about the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009.

Are you disappointed that you might have cleaner air, water & soil instead of cheaper electricity? Or are you upset that Congress is imposing limits and controls on something that had historically been left to State-level authorities? Or something else altogether?

 

On #3 that IER (Institute for Energy Research) list:

"... requiring backup power sources when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine ..."

That is already being addressed by utility-scale battery storage, which also addresses several other issues afflicting traditional generation.

"... added transmission costs to get the power from remote wind and solar sites to demand centers .."

Huh? In my region, much of the traditional hydropower has long been shipped farther to urban customers than the new wind and solar generation needs to be shipped. And many of the data centers have been and are being built closer to the energy sources than are those existing urban customers.

#2, 3, and 4 are mostly MAGA propaganda.

IER is a member of the advisory board of Project 2025. Thomas Pyle, president of the IER and its offshoot American Energy Alliance (AEA), was appointed to the US Department of Energy's transition team after the 2016 United States elections.

It seems to me that the "triggering event here" was in your mirror.

 

Our electric power (mostly from 1billion kWh per year Hungry Horse Reservoir/dam - on the Flathead river tributary, a Columbia River tributary) is part of the Bonneville 31 Hydro Dam system here in the N/W, that still needs occasional natural gas backups. Not so much though, that we need to adjust costs but once a year. Invariably our <10¢/kWh stays the same, year after year, but the 30 hours per week of "primetime" juice continually goes up in costs. (It's over $4/kWh!!!) Thus, even with electrical appliances & charging a plug-in, we can manage a $100 a MONTH electric bill, as long as we turn off the expensive juice appliances - 3hrs in the morning, 3hrs in the evening Monday through friday.
Mid June Idaho trip to Lake Coeur d'Alene will be the 1st time we've had to buy gasoline for the plug-in minivan since January. That's actually good, as it will avoid the stale gas cycle - that will get reset upon refill. It'll be interesting to see where prices are - come mid June.

 

You misread the rate sheet. That is a demand charge, not an energy charge. It is $4 per kW, not per kWh.

Large industrial customers have been paying demand charges for a very long time. Applying demand charges to residential customers is a slightly different take on Time Of Use rates than most utilities use.





Rates &amp; Service Fees - Flathead Electric Cooperative

 

I understand what you are saying, that electricity here is charged at $4 per kW - & I sort of truncated - as the $4 charge - regardless of whether it's broken down for per hour or minute - aren't we still talking the same cost?
The point being that plug in vehicle owners here can have great control of their cost per mile if they just pay attention. Surprisingly, many here don't. I hear air conditioners running regardless of the time despite being able to open Windows and capture cold morning temperatures for instance.
.

 

The difference between kW and kWh is not an hours/minutes kind of difference. They are units for measuring different things: kW to measure power, kWh to measure energy.

The amount of energy you use in a month is one thing you pay for, at a small rate per kWh, no matter what was your pattern of usage that came out to that much energy.

If your usage pattern also included a heavy power demand at a peak time, you pay for that also, at a rate per kW.

 

I wish the EPA testing method had not only "city/highway" but something like "<5 miles, 5-10 miles, >10 miles" (or time equivalents). Unlikely it makes any difference for an EV but it definitely does for ICE vehicles (except probably some plugin hybrids like the Volt). My neighbors across the street bought a hybrid Accord a year or two ago and they were shocked by how poor the MPG was, in the low 30's, why not the advertised 50ish? Simple, that's the wife's car and she never drives it more than a couple of miles out, then the same back. It never has time to warm up, and the car is most likely open loop the entire time she drives it. We have the same issue with our Prius, but not quite as bad, since we drive a bit further for each leg and chain together as many of those short trips as possible. So low 40's. If we have to drive around for an hour then it is high 40's, but we mostly aren't doing that.

Also, for historical purposes, remember how the US automotive industry bitched and moaned that there was no way they could possibly build cars to meet the proposed MPG standards? The Japenese were just, "Fine, we can do that".