Idea for a Sporty GTI competitor for 6th Gen

Well thats strange to hear considering it has one of the highest ridehights of any passanger car. Like if you dont have a crossover, SUV, or pickup truck, the Prius is very high off the ground for a vehicle that is not a part of one of those categories.

Its minimum point ground clearance is 5.6 inches. Thats massive. There are actually some pickup trucks and SUVs out there that barely sit over 6 inches off the ground.

Pretty much only the base model Civic sits any higher than the Prius does.

And handles well? I mean yea if you have never been in even an entry level sports car, sure it handles well compared to like a base Corolla or Jetta. But once you step into a Jetta GLI, Corolla Apex, Civic Si, anything like that - its a completely different world. The Prius is set up for comfort and has tons of body roll. Its the appropriate choice for what the car is trying to do yes, but sporty? Absolutely not. Its handling has just gone from completely horrible and a joke to acceptable and even slightly better than some other base model cars. It also has tires that are far to skinny to allow for any real cornering force, you will just slide out. Also the steering is completely numb and provides no real feedback whatsoever. Its unfortunately something they would have to work on if they wanted to release a sporty Prius.

But then again, I guess a sporty Prius would be a complete waste of time because apparently we are getting a new Hybrid Celica soon, which renders the idea of a sporty prius completely reduntant. I mean maybe not if the Celica focuses too much on power and ends up being too expensive to really be worth it. IDK, we will just have to see.

 

Firmer suspension is certaintly more sporty, its just that its more sporty up until a certain point where making it any stiffer won't give you any real benefit and could actually make the car handle worse because suspension that is TOO stiff will cause bounciness and not allow the tires to maintain grip over lumpy surfaces.

The Prius suspension is without a doubt far too soft to be cosidered sporty. But its not terrible and seems like a great balance for regular people who don't care about sportiness at all.

The GTI has always been the master of balance between comfort and sportiness. Theres a reason why - even if its not selling tons of brand new ones right now, its still the best-selling HOT hatchback in human history.

 

Everyone hates the Prelude because Honda didn't even add any power, so its literally a $30,000 Honda Civic Hybrid with a different body (admittedly a beautiful one), and some nice brakes and suspension for a full $47,000-$48,000. People would have loved it if it had even just 25 BHP over the Civic Hybrid and a price that wasn't absolutely stupid. Remember how much hype there was behind the car before the final performance and price figures were confirmed.

Thats why people love GTIs. They don't ride like a rock, they ride almost as comfortably as the Prius does, and yet they corner flat, corner fast, and have real confidence in the snow too. And of course they are pretty fast. They are also luxurious-feeling, have tons of space inside with a flat hatch and folding seats that turn it into a 2-seater box van on command. They look excellent, they go excellent, and they stop excellent. They are very reliable, hold their value, and remain desirable. They do everything the Prius does, but even better - besides the fuel economy. Thats what the GTI is.

Now the Civic Si - that one was a rock, especially when I put it in sport mode. Anything more than the most minor of bumps felt like slamming into a massive pothole in any regular car. Its actually the only thing I didn't like about it. Honda focused a little too hard on the track and not enough on daily drivability and comfort. But it has comfortable cloth seats that make up for at least a BIT of the harshness so I was able to live with it, especially as Im only in my Mid 30's so its not like Im an old man with back ache yet.

Ya the Corolla Apex isn't very popular for a similar reason - no real performance. They just took a regular Corolla, made it look admittedly killer, and stiffened it up with no actual extra power or performance. Ya because your sporty car should be woefully slow I guess ‍*shrug*.

Anyone who drives a sports car knows they are making a sacrifice of some comfort to get the sporty handling and they are okay with it, especially when the manufacturer is smart like VW and gets the sporty handling while also keeping the car quite comfortable and luxurious-feeling.

Thats what makes the Corolla Apex and Prelude so dumb. So you make the sacrifice of some comfort for the sporty suspension, you pay more for the car, and yet your car isn't even any faster than the base model. Its a total slap in the face.

And yes, I already said the 5th Gen Prius is a fantastic car for what it is. I just said don't mistake it for "sporty" because it isnt. Sporty cars enjoy cornering hard and getting heavy lateral Gs with minimal or no understeer or body roll. The Prius doesn't do that, not in stock form. But it is GREAT at what it does, and it handles well for an economy car focused entirely on fuel efficiency and comfort and has skinny, rolling resitance-focused tires. I liked thd other word you used for it - "zippy". Not powerful enough to be acually fast, but its slightly fun and pulls decently when you want it to, yeah. So what I am saying is that it is very good in comparison to others in its own class, but falls short once you begin to look at anything remotely "sporty". And who is surprised by that? Literally nobody, it wasn't even trying to compete with anything "sporty". Thats my idea for a sporty Prius, not the one we have now.

And ya, the Crown isn't a sporty car either, its a luxurious Grand Tourer. It has the power and luxury, but wasn't designed to corner hard. Just like any other luxury sedan or whatever. Non-AMG Mercedes, Standard Lexus Cars, and Non-M BMWs come to mind when looking for comparisons to the Crown.

Edit: And yes, I know what you mean about the sloped roof. I have bonked my head on it once or twice and it slightly annoying, but Im used to it now. And that is one of the sacrifices we agree to make for the Prius incredible fuel economy. A huge part of the reason its so economical is the body shape. It was designed in a wind tunnel to have as little aerodynamic drag as possible while remaining practical enough to seat a family and carry a good amount of cargo in the back. Its one of the most aerodynamic cars on the market.

As for why I chose the Base LE when I could have afforded up to probably about the Nightshade edition - because in my opinion, the LE makes the most sense. Why are you buying a Prius? To save fuel and money. I don't care about a stupid glass roof. It just adds weight and another piece of glass that can break and then needs to be replaced. If I want fresh air in the cabin - I have 4 windows. And in the summer I want to block the sun out because its hot as hell, especially in Salt Lake City with huge UV numbers and 100+ degree days in peak summer. Its the same reason I only opened the sunroof on my Si maybe 3-4 times in the entire 5 years I owned it. The only time opening a roof makes sense is in the night during summer, on a clear, beautiful night traveling outside the city so you can look up and see the stars. Otherwise, roof glass is a waste of money, material, and weight.

So why not choose the LE that saves you up to $10,000 versus the top trims and is also a nocicable amount more economical, saving you even more money as you own and drive it. And of course there are less electrical items to break. The ONLY features I wish I had on my LE that are from the higher trims are the larger infotainment screen, a heated steering wheel and maybe heated seats (but the cloth ones are super comfy and don't get too hot or cold so... meh...), and then maybe the Nightshade edition Wheels (because they look incredible. Thats literally it, I don't want any of the other junk from the upper trims on my car. I would much rather save the money and the weight, making my car even more efficent - the whole reason you buy a Prius.

 

Ya see I figured the wider and grippier tires would ruin the fuel economy so since my Prius is stock with stock suspension and stock power, Im sticking to efficiency with this one. I just picked up the Bridgestone Ecopia EP422-Plus tires to replace the factory Toyo Extensa's in the OEM 195/60R17 size. I have been learning how to drive the car more efficiently in summer and causing it to kick into EV mode more often. As a result I have picked up a few more MPG lately. I am 200 miles into my current tank and am averaging 66 MPG. I havent installed the Bridgestones yet, I bought them early because there was a Memorial Day sale, but Im hoping I can push to 70+ MPG on the Bridgestones since they actually have a low rolling resistance certification.

Ya, I know a sporty version of the Prius wouldn't have the same fuel economy. The idea for a sporty Prius strikes an ideal balance. I know a Sporty Prius would get nowhere near the 70 MPG I am getting close to now. However, if engineered smart and correctly, a Prius could be made pretty sporty and still offer a solid 50 MPG. I have the absolute most basic LE FWD to save on costs and be more efficient than any other Prius. To make a Sporty Prius thats still efficient, you would want to start with the base LE FWD to save weight. Simply add 40-50 BHP, slightly wider and larger 18"x7" lightweight forged alloy wheels, 215/50R18 or 215/45R18 tires, drop the ride height about 0.5-0.75 inches, stiffen the suspension 15-20% (not too much we still want a fairly comfortable daily driver, just less body roll and a bit more grip), and then maybe add the larger infotainment screen and a heated steering wheel to make it feel more premium. Then of course you can still add in the rear motor and axle for optional AWD option at the expense of more fuel consumption. Otherwise, keep the weight down as much as humanly possible. There is a very good reason why the LE trim is so much more efficient than the XSE or Limited trims.

That GRMN Corolla looks incredible, but Ive never really been interested in the GR Corolla. The GR Corolla has always been slower that its competition - the Volkswagen Golf-R, and I would much rather have the more comfortable ride of the Golf for daily driving anyways. Plus, the Golf has drift mode whereas the Corolla can't really powerslide, and thanks to the absolutely TINY 1.6L 3-Cylinder relying so heavily on boost to have any power whatsoever, the GR Corolla has horrible turbo lag. I really don't see the point of the 3-Cylinder. VWs Golf-R offers more power and the same fuel economy with much less turbo lag out of a much more sensible 2.0L 4-Cylinder. The 3-Cylinder idea has always been an odd ball choice ever since its original design for the GR Yaris in Europe.

If anything, Ill be waiting for the new GR Celica to come out. Its looking like it will be a much better car overall. It will combine a powerful 2.0L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder with a Hybrid-Electric system to create an AWD, 300+ HP beast that should still manage 40-45 MPG on the highway. Much less turbo lag, much better fuel economy, more torque. The only negative is that it probably won't be the liftback body since Toyota already has the Corolla for a hot hatch.

If Toyota really wants to render the VW options pointless, they have to strike a nice balance between efficiency, power, and comfort that the VWs have always offered. The GTI can do about 35 MPG highway with its 248 BHP Turbocharged 4-Cylinder (its a de-tuned Golf-R engine). So if Toyota can use its hybrid system effectively, I could see a base trim/model GR Celica offering anywhere from 275-300 BHP while offering 40+ MPG on the highway. And then, just like the Golf-R offers an even more premium, higher performance 330 BHP AWD option at 30 MPG highway, a higher-tier model/trim option for the GR Celica could offer 350-380 BHP, AWD, and maybe 33-35 MPG highway, using the hybrid electric system to defeat the VWs across all metrics. However, VW has always been the MASTER at offering cars that are sporty and fun to drive, but are also very comfortable and feel quite luxurious inside. VW is KING when it comes to striking the ideal balance for an enthusiast daily driver. Nothing comes close to the sheer daily driving perfection that a VW Golf-GTI offers. The closest alternative as of right now is probably the BMW 2-Series Coupes, which are great cars but offer less practicality, RWD making them useless in the snow (unless you pay even more for X-Drive), and they cost a lot more with a base model/trim 230i RWD at at full $7,000 more than a Golf-GTI S (base trim).