How long before that new car is just a throw away item?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by T1 Terry, Jun 18, 2026 at 4:32 AM.

  1. futurist

    futurist Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2024
    57
    160
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    My gen-1 Paseo was 20yo when sold in WA for $200 to the kid of a friend of mine -- had 285K, on the original clutch, and still got 35 mpg.

    There was a JDM 1.3L turbo version of that car's engine (4E-FTE) that bolted right in, provided you had the right ECU and pigtail harness adapters -- could take a lot more boost than OEM, as in 180 wheel hp with no real hit on reliability. Back when I was thinking about it Y2Ks... getting a 4E-FTE shipped from JDM cost as much for shipping as the motor / trans, something crazy like $600 shipped. So you could have a 180 whp, 2000-lb-soaking-wet FWD rocket roller skate, for $600 and your own labour to drop the drivetrain in (probably needed an LSD and shorter gearing from a Starlet C52 5-spd, whilst we're dreaming :p )

    Could kick myself for not going for it in Y2Ks, would've been a terror to the BMW crowd of the Dubya years :D
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    8,468
    7,452
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    #22 ETC(SS), Jun 19, 2026 at 5:15 AM
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2026 at 5:23 AM
  3. futurist

    futurist Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2024
    57
    160
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    What gets me about the '4-cylinder turbo to replace V8s' path in up-to-half-tonne in the States... is the reason why mfrs added cylinder count in the first place, early 20th century.

    Ford had lots of Fours in the early 20th century -- selling them as fast as could be built. But the issue with Inline-Fours, is they only get a combustion stroke in two places in a crank revolution. When Ford introduced the Flathead V8, that added two more places on the crank, torque could be applied... and thus gangsters bought them up :p

    This is why 60-deg V12s feel almost effortless under throttle -- you have six places on the crank each cylinder is applying torque, smoothing out the delta between them. Trucks that haul or climb w/ 4WD need this torque, thus the ubiquitous 90-deg V8 in most passenger gas applications.

    But when you turbocharge an I-4... all you do is increase the amt of push, until the next cylinder can fire, 180-crank degrees away -- making the delta larger, not smaller. Compound this with the extra heat... and this is why turbocharged Fours don't last all that long in HD hauling or climbing applications -- they have to be spinning pretty fast for those deltas not to catch up with you.

    Toyota's V8s used to be loafing at their purpose for being. This new turbo V6 isn't going to inherit the legacy of Toyota V8s, for many reasons but for this discussion, due to this focus on short-term-gain on emissions, at the cost of being far less reliable and long-lived for the people buying 4WD trucks. It's better than making a Four do Tundra work... but only going to get worse before petrol ICEs are phased out entirely.
     
    BiomedO1 likes this.
  4. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    949
    527
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    A vehicle bought after around 2023 will have clearances for bearings etc, so fine a human hair wrapped around the crankshaft journal would cause a locked engine.
    Gone are the days when just adding thicker oil would increase the oil pressure and quieten the engine noises, 0W thickness oil has problems circulating on start up, try running one of the reliable older 6 or 8 cyl on 0W - 20W oil, it would be battling to make oil pressure cold.
    Here is a late model Toyota engine teardown
    and another by "I do Cars"
    that I enjoy watching to see where the internal combustion engine is headed .... and it doesn't look good for it still being sold in new cars in the foreseeable future .... emission and fuel economy demands will be the end of them ....

    T1 Terry
     
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    8,468
    7,452
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    FOMOCO and RAM both cried "Not in the face!" a couple of years ago...and promised to kill off the V8s.
    GM has quietly kept 5.3-liter and 6.2-liter V8s in their lineups.

    Markets do respond.....
    upload_2026-6-20_12-14-17.png
     
    #25 ETC(SS), Jun 20, 2026 at 1:09 PM
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2026 at 1:14 PM
  6. futurist

    futurist Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2024
    57
    160
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    And it's nice that these LS-based V8s are some of the best available to Everyone. Salvage yards are teeming with loads of iron- and aluminium-block versions from dead trucks and vans to pick from, up to 8.1L (496 ci) if you're lucky.

    Selling ludicrous 1.2L-turbo crossies like the Envista may be off-putting to anyone wanting to merge with 3 people aboard onto the freeway w/o foot to wood (11-sec 0-60 with one 200-lb driver, when a Civic with an Atkinson-cycle 150bhp NA 2.0L, does it in 7.7), but man do their CAFE sacrifices make way for 6.2L and smaller LS V8s to stay (in every new V8 GM truck and Corvette, plus the 5.5L flat-plane-crank one in baller-spec Corvettes).
     
  7. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    949
    527
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Our MG4 51kwh poverty pack EV does the 0 = 100km/h in 6.2 secs, the MG4 XPower does it in 3.2 secs, and not a scrap of emissions, even from the tyres if the traction control is left switched on .....
    The new V8 engines would survive if the bearing clearances were increased and all the nonsense with cyl deactivation was scrapped. Add a hybrid transmission like the Lexus GS450h uses and a decent capacity LFP or sodium ion battery pack and the ability to drive in EV only around town, and the V8 towing capacity of the Australian version of the 1500 Ram with the towing capacity of 5.5 tonne (10,000 lb) would make it great as a local run around and a serious tow vehicle that would meet emissions with an engine that would last the distance expected of a decent V8. That incredible low down torque of the Lexus L110 transmission in low range and 350kw output without the V8 even turning, would make it great off road vehicle as well .....

    I wonder if anyone will start to build the Glider Cab models of the favourite V8 trucks of days gone by with a decent spec V8 that will go the distance and an EV 2 sp transmission behind it, ending the drought of muscle trucks that last the distance and don't cost the earth to run and maintain.

    T1 Terry
     
  8. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    2,762
    1,479
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Customers saw the V8 and thought "8 is better than 4 or 6." But that's not the point. The benefit of a V8 (at least that of a cross-plane crank V8) is it has the engine balance of an inline 6 cylinder but is about as long as a 4 cylinder. Today we can get around a 4 cylinder's secondary imbalance making the V8 obsolete. We can even reduce the vibrations from a 3 cylinder enough to make that feasible.