Fillers in the Gasoline

And I bet you see more vapor from exhaust pipes with cars that have been sitting for a long time with 10% ethanol, as well as less water vapor than car running no ethanol Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada and it's even more pronounced of an issue with watercraft where ethanol can leave you adrift at sea calling for a rescue.

 

I wonder if the difference would be easy to measure. The plain facts of the gasoline-oxygen reaction happening there are to produce about a gallon of water per gallon of gas.

So you'd be talking that amount plus, ok, however much more water has been taken up by the ethanol.

 

With perfect combustion, a gallon of pure gasoline will produce a little over a gallon of water. https://www.quora.com/How-much-water-does-my-car-produce-after-burning-one-gallon-of-gas While the combustion isn't perfect in the engine, much of any unburned fuel will be converted to water and CO2 in the catalytic converter.

As a vapor, that gallon of water will take up a much larger volume coming out the exhaust pipe.

Water is also a coproduct of burning ethanol in the E10. Without measures to keep moisture away, ethanol will become about 95% pure with the rest being water. E10 will have at least 0.5% water in it. That is adding 0.005 gallons of water to our big vapor cloud of a gallon coming out the tail pipe. Minus the water combustion product of the fuel that tag-a-long water displaced.

As for watercraft, even 'pure' gas will pick up water in that humid environment in time. Leading to the same issue of un mixed water getting in the lines and fuel starving the engine. If fiberglass isn't a concern, using E30 will eliminate the phase separation issue.

 

Don't you go adding facts into this thread, most aren't ready to handle that sort of abuse ....

I love the logic the high humidity combined with ethanol in the fuel will produce more water at the tailpipe The ethanol has nothing to do with it, the air just holds more water when the humidity is high.

I agree that ethanol has a lot more cleaning power than petrol, but just like the water, it is held in the ethanol and passed through combustion chamber and out the exhaust.
It does melt some plastics, like the stuff they used for fuel tank pick up strainers ..... but buying fuel that needed to go through a strainer is going to produce a lot more dramas than fuel with ethanol in it .... The black composite fuel floats in the Motorcraft 780 4 barrel had the coating melted off, same as the floats in the cheaper variant Holley carbies, but switching the the brass floats solved that problem.

As far as the engine builders lobbying the govt regarding the use of ethanol in the fuel, that was funded by the petroleum industry, they could very well complain themselves that ethanol substitution would eat into profits, so the engine manufacturers were the better choice.

Now the fuel companies can use it as a filler, you won't hear them complaining about it until the oil price returns to being cheaper than ethanol ..... At least the farmers will have somewhere for the crops they can't sell for food, they can sell it as fuel base stock .....

Over here, they make ethanol out of the rubbish remains on wheat flour after anything worth selling has been stripped out of the grains and premium flour, worth more that way than a filler for stock feed .....

T1 Terry

 

Don't you go adding facts into this thread, most aren't ready to handle that sort of abuse ....

I love the logic the high humidity combined with ethanol in the fuel will produce more water at the tailpipe The ethanol has nothing to do with it, the air just holds more water when the humidity is high.

I agree that ethanol has a lot more cleaning power than petrol, but just like the water, it is held in the ethanol and passed through combustion chamber and out the exhaust.
It does melt some plastics, like the stuff they used for fuel tank pick up strainers ..... but buying fuel that needed to go through a strainer is going to produce a lot more dramas than fuel with ethanol in it .... The black composite fuel floats in the Motorcraft 780 4 barrel had the coating melted off, same as the floats in the cheaper variant Holley carbies, but switching the the brass floats solved that problem.

As far as the engine builders lobbying the govt regarding the use of ethanol in the fuel, that was funded by the petroleum industry, they could very well complain themselves that ethanol substitution would eat into profits, so the engine manufacturers were the better choice.

Now the fuel companies can use it as a filler, you won't hear them complaining about it until the oil price returns to being cheaper than ethanol ..... At least the farmers will have somewhere for the crops they can't sell for food, they can sell it as fuel base stock .....

Over here, they make ethanol out of the rubbish remains on wheat flour after anything worth selling has been stripped out of the grains and premium flour, worth more that way than a filler for stock feed .....

T1 Terry

 

Don't you go adding facts into this thread, most aren't ready to handle that sort of abuse ....

I love the logic the high humidity combined with ethanol in the fuel will produce more water at the tailpipe The ethanol has nothing to do with it, the air just holds more water when the humidity is high.

I agree that ethanol has a lot more cleaning power than petrol, but just like the water, it is held in the ethanol and passed through combustion chamber and out the exhaust.
It does melt some plastics, like the stuff they used for fuel tank pick up strainers ..... but buying fuel that needed to go through a strainer is going to produce a lot more dramas than fuel with ethanol in it .... The black composite fuel floats in the Motorcraft 780 4 barrel had the coating melted off, same as the floats in the cheaper variant Holley carbies, but switching the the brass floats solved that problem.

As far as the engine builders lobbying the govt regarding the use of ethanol in the fuel, that was funded by the petroleum industry, they could very well complain themselves that ethanol substitution would eat into profits, so the engine manufacturers were the better choice.

Now the fuel companies can use it as a filler, you won't hear them complaining about it until the oil price returns to being cheaper than ethanol ..... At least the farmers will have somewhere for the crops they can't sell for food, they can sell it as fuel base stock .....

Over here, they make ethanol out of the rubbish remains on wheat flour after anything worth selling has been stripped out of the grains and premium flour, worth more that way than a filler for stock feed .....

T1 Terry

 

I love the logic the high humidity combined with ethanol in the fuel will produce more water at the tailpipe The ethanol has nothing to do with it, the air just holds more water when the humidity is high.

I agree that ethanol has a lot more cleaning power than petrol, but just like the water, it is held in the ethanol and passed through combustion chamber and out the exhaust.
It does melt some plastics, like the stuff they used for fuel tank pick up strainers ..... but buying fuel that needed to go through a strainer is going to produce a lot more dramas than fuel with ethanol in it .... The black composite fuel floats in the Motorcraft 780 4 barrel had the coating melted off, same as the floats in the cheaper variant Holley carbies, but switching the the brass floats solved that problem.

As far as the engine builders lobbying the govt regarding the use of ethanol in the fuel, that was funded by the petroleum industry, they could very well complain themselves that ethanol substitution would eat into profits, so the engine manufacturers were the better choice.

Now the fuel companies can use it as a filler, you won't hear them complaining about it until the oil price returns to being cheaper than ethanol ..... At least the farmers will have somewhere for the crops they can't sell for food, they can sell it as fuel base stock .....

Over here, they make ethanol out of the rubbish remains on wheat flour after anything worth selling has been stripped out of the grains and premium flour, worth more that way than a filler for stock feed .....

T1 Terry

 

Now that you grumpy old men who don't understand phase separation are done telling me to get off your lawn and I still haven't got off your lawn: Let's get back to the point that the amount of water produced in engine combustion isn't as relevant as what Ethanol does to bring water in that poisons your entire vehicle/vessels fuel system:

"Ethanol's –OH group is polar, so it will pull moisture out of humid air the way straight gasoline (a nonpolar hydrocarbon mix) won't. In an E10 blend, the ethanol fraction can hold about 0.5% water by volume in suspension before the blend goes unstable — roughly 3.8 teaspoons of water per gallon of fuel, dissolved invisibly throughout the blend. Past that threshold you get phase separation: the bond between ethanol and gasoline breaks down, the ethanol-water mixture settles to the bottom of the tank as a distinct layer, with the now-lower-octane gasoline floating on top. Since fuel pickup usually draws from the tank bottom, the engine ends up trying to run on that water/ethanol layer — which it generally can't do well or at all." Fuel Phase Separation Explained: Why Ethanol Destroys Marine Engines | Mobile Marina Blog