Featured GM pulls back even more from EV's

Ford & GM pulling back on electric cars ay this time almost seems odd. Looking at where most drivers in the USA are, San Diego County as well as orange and LA counties, gas prices there being today at $5.50-$5.60 a gallon? Thinking how much faster that premium for electric gets paid down?

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This isn't news. They announced backing off the EV only by 2030 plans over two years ago.

It is curious. Who are these posters you keep referencing?

 

Gas prices are an artificial incentive. It used to be that gasoline and diesel taxes were enough to keep roads repaired and in good condition to the point that many states actually have had laws that separate gas tax from the general fund and outlaw the use of general funds for road repair making gas tax about the only way to fund road and bridge repair and construction. But in recent times many places have gone away from that because they don't want to increase the cost of fuel through taxes and instead now place the tax of road upkeep on other taxes like property taxes.

Then add to that that currently electric and even hybrid cars are being taxed to make up for the lost gas taxes but to the point that electric and hybrid owners are actually paying more for those taxes than they would have if they owned a gasser.

SO HOW IS THIS NOT AN ARTIFICIAL INCENTIVE FOR GASOLINE POWERED VEHICLES AND NOT A DISINCENTIVE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES?

 

at the rate things are going, toyota will be out in front of ford and gm in the ev race. toyota plots the long term, ford and gm follow the political winds. that's an expensive strategy, the 180's and write-offs are crazy.

 

It wasn't that long ago that Toyota realized their EV plans were failing as is, assembled an emergency group to address that, which lead to Toyoda stepping down as CEO.

 

so true, now look at the top ten selling ev's.

 

I used to work in the road and bridge department and knew very well where the money was coming from. Both nationally and in many states we charge far fewer taxes for gasoline (adjusted for inflation) than we did decades ago and many state laws made it so that that was the money that went to fixing roads. Now we get those taxes from elsewhere so that we can make gasoline cheaper. If we make gasoline cheaper by getting money to pay for our roads from elsewhere, even from people who don't own a car, then yes, my opinion is that gasoline is being incentivized. If you don't think so, then good for you.

 

Gas is $3.499 locally, per US gallon.
I cannot say what it is in other places because I simply do not know but it seems to me that if it is, say.....$1 more per gallon in other places then this would be a DISINCENTIVE to keep buying petrol-only vehicles.
There is a $2 delta between the high price states and the low ones - and I do not see this as anything but some states using gas as a means of generating income for non transportation related expenditures.

Either way?

meh.

The cheapest new 'gasser' in America is $9,000 less expensive than the cheapest BEV - and if we accept the fact that these are more or less comparable vehicles - and in 2026 they ARE more or less except for the 'two unmentionables" then EVangelists can take comfort in the fact that the 'normality' gap is narrowing between the two architectures.

The unmentionables?
Range anxiety and refueling infrastructure.

If you do not live in a house then BEVs can have refueling issues, and for some people range anxiety is still a "thing" - especially if you're a gig worker or a contractor.
One of my HVAC contractors got a new BEV last year from his company - a '25 GM Equinox that boasted a 334 mile range.
He offered to trade me straight-up for my VERY dilapidated Ford Transit van.
He said "it's purdy - but I spend too much time charging the %^$#@ thing and that 300 mile range is $#$@!!.
(This was last winter.)

I joined PC in 2010.
Back then a $9,000 delta in vehicle prices between a USABLE BEV and a gasser was science fiction!
Let that soak in a bit and remember one thing....
Vehicles were one helluva LOT less expensive in 2010, so that $9,000 delta is a LOT narrower than it would have been in 2010!

SO....
If there's some planet hating committee of BEV hating oligarchs out there trying to kill them while they're still in the womb?
They're doing a really bad job!

In 2026 if you're looking to buy a new car?
If you have DEEP pockets???
Get a PHEV.
Have a back-up.

Otherwise keep waiting for a used BEV and hope to dear GOD above that battery prices keep falling.
......The previously unmentioned THIRD unmentionable....

Sample size = 1.
YMMV.

 

Nice job of brow beating for no reason.

While I disagree with Isaac at times, this time he is more correct than the counterargument.

There are distinct differences in the costs associated with operating service stations and product terminals, as well as a significant disparity in the costs of transporting wholesale fuel via pipelines and trucks. But the argument to pay for automobile infrastructure using fuel taxes as designed is a good one rather than reducing fuel taxes to prop up a war decision and its consequences.

 

This is one of the reasons for the narrowing cost differential between BEVs and petrol cars.
In the end it's probably fair since BEV drivers are more affluent than their plebian 'gasser' counterparts, and our tax system disproportionately services those relatively poorer drivers.
IOW....
Early adopters, like the rich always pay more, so I'm not bothered by the fact that they are effectively free-loaders when it comes to paying fuel taxes that sometimes make their way towards road maintenance and infrastructure.

 

Just checking areas with the least expensive used all-electric pickups, which have to have the largest batteries so they can tow even a mediocre distance between potential Chargers we find this;



Hilarious!
Some steelership sales turds at initial deliveries were commanding as high as $50,000 over msrp & now? ! !
30,000 miles later you can pick one up for less than the initial "bend over" added-on to MSRP PRICE.

 

This is also a good point.

I was thinking more along the lines of how fuel tax was set as a flat rate decades ago and hasn't risen with inflation all these years.

After October of 1993 the federal gas tax has been 18.4 cents a gallon and the average state gas tax was 14.5 cents a gallon at that time for a total of 32.9 cents per gallon, which was around 30 to 35% or so of the cost of a gallon of gas back then.

But the federal gas tax hasn't risen since then and many states also haven't raised their gas tax since then. While some have and the average state tax is now 33.3 cents per gallon (+ 18.4 = 51.7 cents per gallon), if we raised all gas tax to match inflation it would be a total of 76 cents per gallon.

Now, granted, that would be only 24.3 cents more per gallon on average nationwide according to my calculations. That would have put the average price of gasoline before the war at $3.22 per gallon instead of $2.98, and the current average price would be $4.34 a gallon instead of $4.10. That may not drive a whole lot of people over to owning an EV, but I think it would cause a few more to at least consider getting into an EV. Although I must say that that calculation is based solely off of inflation and not the actual cost increase of maintaining roads and bridges specifically.

But then you add the disincentive. At 15,000 miles per year and at 30 mpg average an ICE vehicle driver would be paying $92 per year for the 18.4 federal gas tax. So why is there a consideration for charging EV owners $130 per year (increasing to $150 per year) for lost federal gas tax? And the ironic thing is that both this federal EV tax and many state EV taxes are indexed to increase with inflation, at least for a period of several years, whereas gas tax isn't. Gas tax is still its same old flat rate from back in 1993.

My county is trying to get a new property tax into effect to make up for the lost revenue from waning gas taxes for road and bridge maintenance. States like Texas rely heavily on property taxes to fund their road and bridge maintenance. Of course, there is also the counter argument that everyone benefits from roads and bridges even if they don't personally use them. But then again, it's still placing the cost of using pavement on something that's not using pavement. What about rail? What about drone deliveries? What about levitating cars? While a lot of this kind of stuff isn't offsetting the cost of pavement, it does bring up the question of what would happen to taxes if they ever do. If you're in a state that pays for pavement via property tax, would they just keep taxing you or lower it? Gas tax is simple, people stop driving ICEV and the tax naturally goes away.

Now, yes, I do agree that paying $40 to $70 more per year to own an EV than an ICEV isn't a real incentive compared to a $7,500 tax refund. And I also do agree that that if we were to increase the cost of gasoline by 24.3 cents that that wouldn't be enough to make people flock over to buying EVs either. But any change in the way we are taxed by moving where we get the money for something from over here to over there means whatever is now cheaper as a result is being incentivized and whatever is now more expensive is being disincentivized.

 

Yep. I am in a market for BEV pickup truck. My need is very simple, I need a pickup truck that can haul a plywood EV range less than 100 miles a day. I don't need fancy gadgets or second row/door seats.

I paid $50 deposit to pre-order SLATE back when they first announced. But... canceled it. Even without incentives, the price is fine. It got all I need for what I use a pickup. Only thing was that without dealership backing up, I have no place to service the car if it needs a warranty service. I am considering Telo and upcoming Ford Fathom, but used Lightning hits the sweet spot. I just need to convince my DW, that it is a great buy. lol

 

Get her drunk first......
It's much harder to make EVs make sense when you're sober.

As for your needs?
Get a Bolt and a garden trailer with a 4x8 bed.
-done.

 

The new Chevrolet Bolt EV starts at an MSRP of $27,600 for the base LT trim

The cheapest new car available in the United States is the Hyundai Venue, with a starting base price of about $20,550

I know there are bolts available at that price, not sure about venues

 

We have our Equinox EV. With tax credit and other incentives still available back when we bought it, it was even cheaper than base model '27 Bolt. I put on 1500lb towing hitch and bought a HF 8x4 utility trailer. Works fine, only if my DW doesn't need her car. We are single car home with two drivers. LoL