Is the HD war over?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Jul 27 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]486264[/snapback]</div>

I think that people often put too much stock in the higher storage = better concept when it comes to the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray discussion.

The other edge of this sword is that the HD-DVD standard benefits from the ability to produce a double-sided disc, whereas Blu-Ray cannot. You will notice some titles on HD-DVD are marked "Combo Format"... which means it has standard DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other. I believe it is a very clever way to get the media into homes when the players are still expensive!

Personally, I am waiting for the war to end and (hopefully) for HD-DVD to come out on top, for completely biased and personal reasons... :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jul 27 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]486281[/snapback]</div>

Who buys CD's? I do. And I am 42, not your grandma's age, unless she is mighty young.
And I then load the tunes into my iTunes, with over 36,000 songs so far, and from my PERSONAL CD collection. Yeah, I don't use my CD changer in my car; I use the device that thinks it's a MD changer...but I still prefer CD's, because of Dual Discs, and the art work...

As for movies...Until the time they can download a movie in High Def, with 7.1 sound, people will want to buy High Def discs. Sorry, youngster, but that is the way it is.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Jul 28 2007, 12:39 AM) [snapback]486543[/snapback]</div>

I have both because UNIVERSAL is being stupid, and not allowing for both formats. But BD is far better then HD-DVD in sound, picture, and also content. Content is King. Every other MAJOR studio is supporting BD.

Why would you need a disc that is both HD and DVD? Not to mention how one side of those dual sided discs is more prone to scratching (another area that BD is better then HD-DVD. The discs are more prone to avoiding scratches).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 28 2007, 12:58 AM) [snapback]486550[/snapback]</div>

Personally, I think that's the best way to go for quality. I know you're not 'supposed' to be able to tell that the 128K bitrate from iTunes doesn't sound as good as an MP3 at twice the bitrate, but to me... the difference is subtle but noticeable. (Disclaimer: I've bought about a half dozen albums from iTunes and since I've heard a CD version of a few of the songs I've purchases, I've had to go out and buy a few of the albums on CD)

And yes, I know iTunes has started to offer higher bitrate songs for just a bit more money.. but once they moved beyond that magic 99 cent price range, they're in competition with Amazon..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 27 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]486550[/snapback]</div>

Eh, you're close enough. At a spry 27, I'd like to take the privilage of speaking for my entire generation when I say that most of us are getting our music online, some illegally, and some through services like iTunes, but it's an iPod, not a CD player that's on our Christmas lists.

Indeed, Sam Goody, Tower Records and similar stores who based their livelihood on CD sales are all turning up dead, largely because of the shift to digital downloads:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6082201350.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 27 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]486550[/snapback]</div>

I disagree (sort of). 49% of HDTV owners don't even use the HD capabilities. Many HDTV owners don't even own a high-def DVD player Blu Ray or HD DVD, and the advantages of downloaded medium are overwhelming.

If people could have movies neatly categorized in menus vs. a huge pile of boxes, and get what they wanted to watch on demand at reasonable prices without a trip to Best Buy, then online downloads would be a clear winner.

That said, I would agree that the online movie industry will eventually need to stream HD-quality content to satisfy demand.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jul 28 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]486760[/snapback]</div>

So, you are a youngster then? I figured. Still wet behind the ears, yet know more about the world then the rest of us...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jul 28 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]486760[/snapback]</div>

51% of all polls are wrong. I have both HD-DVD, and BLU-RAY. And I have a APPLE TV. Nothing beats my HD players when it comes to showing movies on my eight foot screen. SO, maybe therein lies the truth. If you have a bigger deal, you want a quality picture. Those of you on a iPod kind of screen, I can see not noticing quality. Er, I mean, the difference in quality.

 

Hey, you need only walk into any Blockbuster or Best Buy to see today's reality. There are a lot of HDTV's for sale and very few CRT's anymore, but if you look in the movie section for HD movies, you'll see a small rack of Blu Rays amidst seas of normal DVDs.

You're obviously an exception, but most of the rest of the world has yet to really care about HD quality video. The stats about sparse HD quality utilization are there and corroborated by multiple studies, and if you want to swap anecdotes, most of my immediate friends and family own HDTVs (some including the 8' screen variety), yet not a one of them owns an HD DVD or Blu Ray player.

Lower quality DVD's are still the favorite movie format of HDTV owners, and I'd argue that most people would be ready to make the leap to downloaded movies of a similar quality if a company would master the business in terms of selection, price, and usability.

That said, how is the quality of the current Apple TV movies on your screen? Would you say they are at least close to normal DVD's yet? So far I've only played with demo units in the Apple Store because I'm waiting for the technology to mature a bit before buying, but I would be curious to get the detailed lowdown from a technophile.

 

I am tone deaf, and my eyesight stinks. So quite honestly, standard DVD's on the 50 inch Panny plasma in the house look just fine to me, and sound pretty darn good.

I am in NO rush to jump into the HD/HDMI/copyProtection mess. And as I have said before, the discs are not a viable storage medium in my house because of scratching. So until I can make a personal copy on a HD, I'll keep my money.

I'll also admit to a definite anti-Sony bias

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jul 29 2007, 04:43 AM) [snapback]487019[/snapback]</div>

I would say, again, the smaller the screen, the better the Apple TV looks. On my eight footer, it looks like a fairly good DVD, but not close to HD quality. And the sound has yet to be 5.1 on downloads. Now, what is weird, is that it has digital out, and can 'fake' a 5.1 sound, but it's not the real deal yet.

The latest update has the ability to watch YouTube and that is like watching TV. It's better then on a standard computer monitor, but it's not as good as HD again. What I like about the Apple TV is that I can stream my entire music library to it (the storage it has is not nearly enough for my 36,000 + song collection). So now I can listen out on the 'big' stereo my tunes, and that is sweet.

I think, if they can figure out the 5.1 problem, Apple is on the fore front here. It could be the first step towards movies being more acceptable as downloads. At least for high end users like me.

 

Good perspective. Thanks, man.

 

HD DVD or Blu-ray? Even the Porn Industry Won't Touch It

This answers why VHS won over Betamax. Who knew the porn industry was so influential?

 

BluRay and HD-DVD are doomed. People got caught in the VHS/Betamax format wars before and aren't going to make the same mistake again. Both of these formats will be driven into obsolescence by IPTV or something similar before they ever have a chance to proliferate significantly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prudence @ Aug 2 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]489523[/snapback]</div>

"no Blu-ray manufacturer would make his discs. While it's true that Sony has said it would not "replicate" adult titles on any format—meaning that it won't use its factories to produce Blu-ray porn"
I read an interesting point in an article about porn for the Japanese market.Sony just sold Blu-ray production equipment to a porn factory in Taiwan.
Sony will not allow porn to be produced in its own facilities that produce mainsteam films to avoid mixups.Especially when Disney is one of the Blu-ray companies .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jul 28 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]486760[/snapback]</div>

Comcast and other cable companies already have On Demand HD movies and other content.I think their delivery system could compete with disc sales .If they had the newest titles at a reasonable price.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mojo @ Aug 2 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]489547[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, but there's something cool about being able to download the movies and, say, take them with you on a player your kids watch in the car on the way to Grandma's. On Demand is pretty nice, but sort of limited in its capabilities (so far). I don't mind paying recurring fees for rental-like services (ant think that's a vital part of a successful downloadable movie industry), but I also like having the option of permanent ownership of the content.

 

Here are my opinions
First off I have a 40 " 1080p LCD, when purchased I already had an xbox 360 so I went ahead and purchased the add-on drive for the $199.
If you hook up the xbox with a VGA cable instead of the components it will allow you to play the HD DVD's at 1080p quality, I've played with it in numerous setups and there is an amazing difference between watching at 720p or 1080i. Although the xbox will upconvert (also only through VGA unless you have the elite version) I watch my normal DVD's on an older DVD player with progressive scan which outputs at 480p and quite honestly regular DVD's look pretty darn good. My point being that the jump from DVD to HD DVD is not anywhere near the jump it is from VHS to DVD. I think the format that will win is going to be the format with the cheaper movies. Once Wal-Mart decides to start stocking significant numbers of the next gen discs in their stores that is when it will be decided. And to clear up the comments about Target, Target is only going to be selling standalone Blu-Ray players exclusively, they will be continuing to stock HD DVD movies and the Xbox HD DVD add on drive.

By the way the HD DVD add on drive for the xbox now retails for $179 and is now eligible for 5 free HD DVD movies through Toshiba plus it still comes with King Kong and the remote. 6 movies and an HD DVD for $179 is a pretty good deal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ Aug 2 2007, 06:52 PM) [snapback]489628[/snapback]</div>

I agree, although it bears mentioning that you do not choose from *any* five movies, but from a limited assortment. 10 I think, but am not positive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 2 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]489638[/snapback]</div>

yeah I forgot that part you to choose 5 of a pre selected 15. You can look at the rebate slip here

http://www.toshibahddvd.com/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 27 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]486550[/snapback]</div>

It's already happening with torrents. A file that takes up a DVD worth of space (~4.5GB) is capable of 720p resolution with excellent, crystal quality. At 300KB/s, a movie can be downloaded in about 3 hours. With connection speeds regularly on the rise, and storage space that's cheaper than water, it's not unusual to see full BlueRay/HDDVD rips that weigh in at 20GB+.

On larger HDTVs, the visual limitations of DVD become painfully apparent. DVDs will still be around for awhile since the general populace are still on CRTs or smaller HD sets. I've setup a Home Theatre PC that outputs directly to my LCD TV via a VGA cable to watch downloaded media. The HD titles, that I have the original DVDs for, completely blow away the DVDs in visual quality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ Aug 2 2007, 06:52 PM) [snapback]489628[/snapback]</div>

Um, VGA? You sure about that camper?
Is that your final answer? Just curious.


And, if you see no difference between 480p, and 1080i, I would be willing to bet you are not seeing true 1080i. You might think you are, but you probably have a TV that DOWN CONVERTS your signal, to 720p or 480p...since, the difference between true 1080i and 480p is like Black and White TV to Color.

So if you can't see it with your DVD, then you should stick with your HD-DVD drive...Oh! Wait! That's right. You are using HD-DVD! I forgot. It's not as good as BLU-RAY. Most of your HD-DVD type players, well, they only output 1080p, not 1080i, but I think there may be one model out there doing 1080i now...

Well, good look with your set up...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prudence @ Aug 2 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]489523[/snapback]</div>

Exactly. What format wins out is going to be determined by what side Porno chooses. And if they stick with DVD...both formats may be doomed.

BTW the porno industry are great customers of Apple. Because of the multimedia editing capabilities. You can do a lot more with a Mac than make cool CGI dinosaurs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 2 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]489532[/snapback]</div>

I agree with this too. No way I'm buying either format until there is a clear, absolute winner. And no way I'm giving up my current DVDs. I still have my VCR too. And yes, it's a VHS. It's a shame the industry didn't learn the lesson of VHS/Beta. The music biz learned it. That's why all of the players got together and agreed on a common format for CDs before they ever went to the consumer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 3 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]489834[/snapback]</div>

Let's not forget how the introduction of DVD was totally derailed by DIVX (the disc, not the codec).

That's a perfect example of how agreement upon a format went sour after introduction. DVD supporters fought so hard for full industry acceptance before anything was sold to a consumer. Then it went bad afterward anyway. The penalty was a set back for almost 2 years... from Sept. 1997 to June 1999.

The interesting part was how it ended. The collapse of DIVX was literally overnight. The next day it ceased to exist. All shelves had been emptied upon the announcement.

What did we learn from that?